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Redundancy – here’s a kick in the balls you didn’t bargain for !

#1
You couldn’t make this up. Despite the Tranche 2 DIN stating that applicants may apply for FTOD by this week, I have been informed today that DM(A) has told MS Branches that no overseas applicants will be given UK assignments, they will remain overseas and stag on until starting their annual/resettlement/terminal leave. That means they can't get a MQ in UK.

How on earth can someone sort out their families housing, schooling, jobs etc if they are trying to do this from Fally or similar and they can't be posted back to UK ? Reason given ? ’well they applied so should have made plans for that ’

Does this mean that we are restricting Redundancy applications to those based in UK because it will be impossible for many overseas to sort their lives out in the brief final 20 working days of Terminal Leave or are we expecting them to do their admin during Resettlement Training ? (which is hard enough to do anyway from overseas)

Hopefully someone will come on here and say that just one Desk Officer has got this wrong and is applying this policy blindly – I doubt it though. It will be fascinating to see if this same policy is applied to the many senior officers serving overseas or just to soldiers….. I see Service Complaints and letters to The Sun.

The Army is an ‘Investor in People ‘ – my Arrse ! What on earth are we coming to when we treat our soldiers this way ?!

TTF I am out soon and no longer have to try and sell this keek to anyone as 'fair & reasonable behaviour'. It stinks.
 
#5
You couldn’t make this up. Despite the Tranche 2 DIN stating that applicants may apply for FTOD by this week, I have been informed today that DM(A) has told MS Branches that no overseas applicants will be given UK assignments, they will remain overseas and stag on until starting their annual/resettlement/terminal leave. That means they can't get a MQ in UK.

How on earth can someone sort out their families housing, schooling, jobs etc if they are trying to do this from Fally or similar and they can't be posted back to UK ? Reason given ? ’well they applied so should have made plans for that ’

Does this mean that we are restricting Redundancy applications to those based in UK because it will be impossible for many overseas to sort their lives out in the brief final 20 working days of Terminal Leave or are we expecting them to do their admin during Resettlement Training ? (which is hard enough to do anyway from overseas)

Hopefully someone will come on here and say that just one Desk Officer has got this wrong and is applying this policy blindly – I doubt it though. It will be fascinating to see if this same policy is applied to the many senior officers serving overseas or just to soldiers….. I see Service Complaints and letters to The Sun.

The Army is an ‘Investor in People ‘ – my Arrse ! What on earth are we coming to when we treat our soldiers this way ?!

TTF I am out soon and no longer have to try and sell this keek to anyone as 'fair & reasonable behaviour'. It stinks.
I will come on here & tell you that, notwithstanding any disinformation mix up or moral indignation considerations, what you say they are trying to do sounds, logically,from their point of view, about right & the way they would want to try & implement & manage parting company with a redundee presently situated overseas.

Bearing in mind that the whole argument for years about why bfg had to stay where it was, was because there was no where in UK to put them. Where would they suddenly conjure up the accomodation to transit the sort of numbers scheduled to leave the service including those serving in bfg, first back through a married quarter in UK ? Not to mention the additional cost which makes that option an expensive luxury the dept. simply cannot afford. No, the objective here is to try & disband units in bfg where they stand, which effectively includes service personnel located there who will be leaving the service.

If you think about it, it follows therefore, that if they had to post every single applicant leaving back to a quarter in UK first, that would bring them right back to where they started & the argument that bfg has to stay where it is because there is no accomodation for them in UK. Which would be nice, but not very realistic.

So there, you always said Outstanding & I were the bearers of doom & gloom predictions about bfg. Have some more of the awfull truth. I could of course be wrong in my assessment, but I don`t think so.
 
#6
rape the mod for EVERYTHING you can agoodgrouping, even if its from bog roll to pensions RAPE THE ***** i may be plastered but i speak da true

shit in your oc or co's drawers then take the trail on a merry dance, best of luck fella
 
#8
Well all the money those in BFG have saved with LOA and Tax-Free goods etc they do not need SFA. Surely they have saved enough for a large deposit on a house instead of pissing it up the wall - or be!!!!
 
#9
The stuff I was thinking of turned out to be entitlement to DA and RE. You could move to your chosen area now (though obviously that would be a family move only, as you would still need to turn up each day) and claim for that move if you wish. The rules for this are in JSP 752 Chapter 7 Section 4. You must "have formally expressed a preference for a FTOD location using JPA Form F024" to be eligible.
 
#10
Well all the money those in BFG have saved with LOA and Tax-Free goods etc they do not need SFA. Surely they have saved enough for a large deposit on a house instead of pissing it up the wall - or be!!!!
I will have been in BFG for 25 years, when I bail out in 2013, everything I have is tax free, including the S Class, E Class and Vito I have, nice big fat deposit my arrse I'm building my own when I fall off the end.

Wondering whether to invest in a fuel bowser now that fuel coupons have reduced in price thanks to the Saudis dropping the price of Brent Crude in a vain attempt to affect the Iranian flow of oil, and stock up, 1600 litres a month I can get, my LOA and Child benefit cover that easilly and some

Anyway just been told we are on the Piss from 1200 hrs tomorrow, all paid for by the mess, and to take Thursday off.

Yes BFG is for winners, so no doubt all those serving in BFG will be able to afford 2 houses.


But back to the op - if you are refused your FTOD aren't you meant to be compensated by another batch of terminal leave? giving you 56 days terminal leave and the removals paid for or a notional claim to catterick?
 
#11
I will come on here & tell you that, notwithstanding any disinformation mix up or moral indignation considerations, what you say they are trying to do sounds, logically,from their point of view, about right & the way they would want to try & implement & manage parting company with a redundee presently situated overseas.

Bearing in mind that the whole argument for years about why bfg had to stay where it was, was because there was no where in UK to put them. Where would they suddenly conjure up the accomodation to transit the sort of numbers scheduled to leave the service including those serving in bfg, first back through a married quarter in UK ? Not to mention the additional cost which makes that option an expensive luxury the dept. simply cannot afford. No, the objective here is to try & disband units in bfg where they stand, which effectively includes service personnel located there who will be leaving the service.

If you think about it, it follows therefore, that if they had to post every single applicant leaving back to a quarter in UK first, that would bring them right back to where they started & the argument that bfg has to stay where it is because there is no accomodation for them in UK. Which would be nice, but not very realistic.

So there, you always said Outstanding & I were the bearers of doom & gloom predictions about bfg. Have some more of the awfull truth. I could of course be wrong in my assessment, but I don`t think so.
Schooley, I suspect that O/S and you are possibly too old and comfortably financially secure (I know I am) for this policy to affect us personally but it does impact on the soldiers I am responsible for so dust off that old ‘Serve to Lead’ badge and please ‘lend me your ears’. Think RLC Pioneer with kids not passed over retired Officer to get my drift.
This isn’t just about applicants in UK and in Germany, it involves others posted around the world who – at the time they went there – would not have been aware of Redundancy. The respective fields only came out earlier this year after all.
Young Pte Knucklescraper RLC reads the DIN and he fits the bill – he applies knowing he is overseas and aware of the criteria:
51. Relocation of Personnel Serving Abroad. Relocation arrangements for those
selected for redundancy who are serving overseas are as follows:
b. Applicants. Selected Applicants will normally remain overseas for the majority
of their Notice Period but will, wherever the interests of the Service allow, be
relocated in time to allow them to undertake resettlement training and Terminal
Leave. Applicants should not expect to be relocated to the UK within 4 months of
selection.
c. Applicants Serving Overseas Entitlement to SFA. Applicants serving
overseas are entitled to SFA at the location assigned for their last assignment. If
there is no SFA available within a 10 mile radius of that location, DIO Ops
Accommodation will offer SFA further afield. Applicants will not be entitled to SSFA
but will be eligible to apply for surplus SFA in accordance with JSP 464 Part 1,
Chapter 10. Further information on SFA entitlement can be sought through the CoC
from PS4(A).
Would you agree then that para B suggests to the good Pte K he could expect to return about 4 months before discharge (ie 12 Aug) so he can sort his life out and that para C states that he would therefore be ENTITLED to SFA.
Now, and I am going slowly for you as the sun is past the yardarm, he applies for his FTOD iaw the DIN for his preferred retirement place of Dagenham. If his career manager can’t get him a suitable mil post in 50 miles of Dagenham (eg he is moving from Cyprus but the only place they can stick him is Tidworth) then he gets his move from the MQ in Tidworth to Daggers paid for by HMG.
With me so far…your lips still moving ?
Problem is that if the APC won’t now give him a posting order to ANY UK unit so the DHE won’t give him a MQ so he is up shit creek. The whole resettlement plan collapses as he is now left trying to find temp rented accn from overseas to move his family into, if he had been posted to a UK unit he could have got the MQ (as stated in the DIN as an ENTITLEMENT) and squared himself away.
So Pte K has done exactly what it said on the tin, sorry DIN – and he is now shafted. When it comes to looking after soldiers properly in these circumstances you seem to focus on ‘cost’ – if he is following the agreed procedure then they should have been factored in when the DIN was issued.
Key phrase is ‘where the interests of the Service allow’ and this is subjective ….I suspect that if Pte Knucklescraper was Lt Col Knucklescraper based in the Brit High Commission Bogota then he WOULD get a posting order and a MQ to move from.
There are LOTS of Pte K’s. Having now seen the DIN what would YOU do in Pte K’s position ? What would you do to help him if you were Pte K’s boss ? I suspect **** all which is why you are no longer serving, instead of spending your life on this website why not agitate your MP and highlight this disgraceful treatment of our soldiers…or does ‘doing the right thing’ ethic vanish on discharge ?
Hope it is clear now you have the facts in the DIN.
 
#12
Would you agree then that para B suggests to the good Pte K he could expect to return about 4 months before discharge (ie 12 Aug)
no. 6 - 4 = 2.

"Applicants should not expect to be relocated to the UK within 4 months of selection."

not within 4 months of selection surely means (for an applicant) they can only expect a maximum of 2 months back in the UK?
 
#13
no. 6 - 4 = 2.

"Applicants should not expect to be relocated to the UK within 4 months of selection."

not within 4 months of selection surely means (for an applicant) they can only expect a maximum of 2 months back in the UK?
hats off- you are right & I am wrong, teach me to RTFQ.

That is why you are Intelligent and I am a Scaley....

Morally, I still think we SHOULD allow them to go back earlier but I now see the MS desk parachute.

Strangely enough the policy appears to be very 'flexible' I know of at least 2 Lt Cols who have suddenly found a posting back authorised to move from distant pastures to vacant MOQ in Aug 12 - I'm sure it happens just as failrly at all ranks too.
 
R

really?_fascinating

Guest
#14
It also says 'where the interests of the service allow' so no entitlement to an assignment in UK at all.
 
#15
To the OP , the 2 personnel who volunteered in my unit, the day they were informed that they were successful I faxed their FTOD paperwork to their relevant MCM Div - they received their assignment orders this week.
 
#16
Tranch 2 redundancy website states that all applicants FTOD application to be submitted within 20 days, non applicants have two months to submit their applications. In both cases JPA need to be updated with your preferences
 
#17
So - in plain English - Pte Knuckles has a good chance of getting back to the UK if he put in a request for a final tour of duty as soon as he got his redundancy notice. The problem is that Pte Knuckles hasn't put in such a request or is wanting the army to move his family to Dagenham rather than to the quarter he's been allocated in Tidworth.
 
#18
So - in plain English - Pte Knuckles has a good chance of getting back to the UK if he put in a request for a final tour of duty as soon as he got his redundancy notice. The problem is that Pte Knuckles hasn't put in such a request or is wanting the army to move his family to Dagenham rather than to the quarter he's been allocated in Tidworth.
No, you miss my point. He DID apply for FTOD and was approved but he STILL needs an assignment order to a unit within 50 miles etc so he can claim DA and Removals (and in his case register with the council for a house). The same MCM Div that issued the FTOD will NOT issue a AO using the policy 'really fascinating' quotes above ...where the interest of the Service allow.

Well Knuckles MCM Div view (it may vary between the various Desk Officers) is that for this reason they wont issue the AO so he is screwed, simple as that = he cannot do the online removals appn without an AO, simple as.

MCM Div are unbending - Knuckles case now at 2" level so hopefully common sense should be applied/
 
R

really?_fascinating

Guest
#19
So by Oct 12 he needs to be back in UK somewhere if possible? He can get his final move from BFG to UK private address if absolutely necessary. As outstanding said, if there are not enough houses (and there aren't) then he can't have one. This affects all ranks, I know of OCs who have waited months for quarters.

It should not be forgotten that he is an applicant- so posting him to a unit for eight weeks is probably not in service interest in the strictest application of the interest, even if it is in his. I am sure CO x unit does not want to have to administer hundreds of applicants all at the same time- hence MCM div reluctance? What units of his cap badge are within 50 miles travel of Dagenham? Colchester over 50, Aldershot over 50, Chatham 25 miles. But if no posts and no houses, he cant get there. Where does the 2 star live, could he move in with him? (kidding, but I was asked if I could move in with mates for a few months when DHE could not allocate me a quarter!)

We are in strategic clip. Knuckles ( like everyone using DIO) is a victim of our under resourcing of our plans.
 
#20
So by Oct 12 he needs to be back in UK somewhere if possible? He can get his final move from BFG to UK private address if absolutely necessary. As outstanding said, if there are not enough houses (and there aren't) then he can't have one. This affects all ranks, I know of OCs who have waited months for quarters.

It should not be forgotten that he is an applicant- so posting him to a unit for eight weeks is probably not in service interest in the strictest application of the interest, even if it is in his. I am sure CO x unit does not want to have to administer hundreds of applicants all at the same time- hence MCM div reluctance? What units of his cap badge are within 50 miles travel of Dagenham? Colchester over 50, Aldershot over 50, Chatham 25 miles. But if no posts and no houses, he cant get there. Where does the 2 star live, could he move in with him? (kidding, but I was asked if I could move in with mates for a few months when DHE could not allocate me a quarter!)

We are in strategic clip. Knuckles ( like everyone using DIO) is a victim of our under resourcing of our plans.
I am starting to think you ARE the Desk Officer ! Look, he and his family have a right to be returned to UK at the end of their Service - I assume we agree on that ? All we are talking about then is issuing him with an AO to a unit/location in UK - his FTOD will allow him to move from that location if it is beyond 50 miles to where he wants to set up home. Without an AO to ANYWHERE in UK you cannot start the whole process though, you can't say when or where your family will be in UK. There are many, many people posted from overseas back to UK at the end of their careers who do little more than de-kit, final medical and hand in the MOD 90. But to GET back you need the AO....if he and his family have a right to be posted back why not issue an AO so he can apply for the MQ (or surplus MQ) from which he can move from. Is he supposed to wait until his unit say farewell at his 2 months to go point (start of resettlement and terminal leave point) or is he supposed to do those in UK and hopefully sort out a place to live during his course ? They MUST give him a AO at some stage to return so why NOT give the lad a AO now ? - somecapbadges are doing it so why not all ? I am 100% certain that if he was an officer he would get one !
 

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