Redundancies

[chrisg46]

Afternoon all,

I have had an interesting year... I had a provisional offer to join a new job at the start of the year, likely to be in June. However, as a reservist, I was mobilised shortly after that (deploying in March/April, returning in October, Post tour leave ended at the start of this month), so I asked to defer to Jan 2021. I therefore had not said anything about this to my civilian employers.
Roll on mid-tour, and my entire civvy team is made redundant. This isn't an issue in my understanding as its the entire team that's affected, not me as an individual so I have not been singled out due to mobilisation.
To keep things simple, whereas my colleagues finished in August, the company agreed to "Keep me on" until my leave ended so that the Army doesn't have to recalculate my pay etc, I obviously wasn't being paid by the civvy company so it didn't make much difference to them. I am therefore now officially unemployed, redundancy payment due in a few days time I believe.

That's the background, hopefully clear enough.

If I hadn't mobilised, I would have handed in my notice at the start of May and started this new job in June. I wouldn't therefore have been made redundant, and so no payment. However, I knew I would be leaving anyway upon the end of the mobilisation period regardless. But as I was made redundant, I will shortly be receiving a (for me) significant amount of money that I would not otherwise have received. Does that make sense? I did not discuss the new job offer with anyone at work.

My question is primarily, is this legal - I think so? Secondly, is it ethical - I think not? Personally, I have not felt loyalty to my civvy employers for some time, and have anticipating redundancy coming for about two years. I think they have behaved quite underhanded. However, I do recognise that might make me biased in my decision making, and the new job does really require a certain level of integrity so I want to be comfortable with myself....

Advice please?

 

[yater_spoon]

I went through a redundancy process 2 years ago. All was going smoothly in my role only to return from annual leave to face a complaint which I was not allowed/did not have the opportunity to question. Placed in a redundancy pot with bosses wife, so it was obvious it was me who was going. Is it ethical to take the money? Yes.

 

[chrisg46]

Ah, just read my post again, I meant to say I think it IS ethical to take the money - I missed the un bit off...

 

[anglo]

You worked for the company, they made you redundant, the payment is for all the years worked,
Your intentions don't come into it, take the money, be happy, and good luck in your new job.

 

[Auld-Yin]

The redundancy decision was not yours, it was the company and they will have taken the cost to pay you into account. The fact you were leaving does not really matter as you had in effect 'extended' by explaining fully to your manager about the deployment, sans new job offer, so you told them all that was necessary for them to know. I think that had you handed in your notice and during that period your post became redundant you would still have had a claim as they beat you to it. Not too sure on that though

Take the money and if you are feeling guilty I will give you details of my a bank to donate to a worthy cause.

 

[Roadster280]

Your intentions to leave may well have changed, if they hadn't made everyone redundant. The new job offer may have been withdrawn, changed terms etc. Your own circumstances may have changed leading you to stay with the old firm (had you been able to).

It's a collection of "what ifs". What actually happened was that they made you redundant, so they're making a payment, as they're obliged to do. You have a new job starting soon, and all is well.

 

[chrisg46]

The redundancy decision was not yours, it was the company and they will have taken the cost to pay you into account. The fact you were leaving does not really matter as you had in effect 'extended' by explaining fully to your manager about the deployment, sans new job offer, so you told them all that was necessary for them to know. I think that had you handed in your notice and during that period your post became redundant you would still have had a claim as they beat you to it. Not too sure on that though

Take the money and if you are feeling guilty I will give you details of my a bank to donate to a worthy cause.

happy to do so, but I need an admin fee first, about £250 should do it

 

[Stainmaster]

Chris you were one of the best blokes I met in Queen Lizzie's band of merry, kind almost to a fault. See this windfall as a karma repayment for always doing the right thing, take the money and enjoy it with your loved ones at Christmas. If you can't bring yourself to do that, I have 3 leaking rooves that are gonna cost me a small fortune. I'll send you my bank details....

 

[Auld-Yin]

happy to do so, but I need an admin fee first, about £250 should do it

Thank you for adding my admin fee without prompting!

 

[Auld-Yin]

Chris you were one of the best blokes I met in Queen Lizzie's band of merry, kind almost to a fault. See this windfall as a karma repayment for always doing the right thing, take the money and enjoy it with your loved ones at Christmas. If you can't bring yourself to do that, I have 3 leaking rooves that are gonna cost me a small fortune. I'll send you my bank details....

Back off - I was there first!

 

[Graculus]

Afternoon all,

I have had an interesting year... I had a provisional offer to join a new job at the start of the year, likely to be in June. However, as a reservist, I was mobilised shortly after that (deploying in March/April, returning in October, Post tour leave ended at the start of this month), so I asked to defer to Jan 2021. I therefore had not said anything about this to my civilian employers.
Roll on mid-tour, and my entire civvy team is made redundant. This isn't an issue in my understanding as its the entire team that's affected, not me as an individual so I have not been singled out due to mobilisation.
To keep things simple, whereas my colleagues finished in August, the company agreed to "Keep me on" until my leave ended so that the Army doesn't have to recalculate my pay etc, I obviously wasn't being paid by the civvy company so it didn't make much difference to them. I am therefore now officially unemployed, redundancy payment due in a few days time I believe.

That's the background, hopefully clear enough.

If I hadn't mobilised, I would have handed in my notice at the start of May and started this new job in June. I wouldn't therefore have been made redundant, and so no payment. However, I knew I would be leaving anyway upon the end of the mobilisation period regardless. But as I was made redundant, I will shortly be receiving a (for me) significant amount of money that I would not otherwise have received. Does that make sense? I did not discuss the new job offer with anyone at work.

My question is primarily, is this legal - I think so? Secondly, is it ethical - I think not? Personally, I have not felt loyalty to my civvy employers for some time, and have anticipating redundancy coming for about two years. I think they have behaved quite underhanded. However, I do recognise that might make me biased in my decision making, and the new job does really require a certain level of integrity so I want to be comfortable with myself....

Advice please?

Of course it's ethical, you were still employed by them until redundancy, that's it. You "could" have changed your mind or you "could" have died the day before bunging in your notice. You're covered, spend it all on a disco ball full of hookers.

 

[History_Man]

Fcuk 'em, take the cash! Ethics don't come into it.

 

[TheSockPuppet]

Life is always ready to kick you in the bóllocks - take the money whilst you have the chance and enjoy some good luck for a change. If anyone tries to guilt you into doing otherwise - fúck 'em right off at the high port - you've earned the karma by all accounts.

Failing all else, blow the lot on booze and birds - that'll even you out.

 

[br9mp812]

take the money, they won't even remeber your name a week after you go, feck em!

 

[mnairb]

A guy I knew had a job offer from a rival company and went in to his boss to put his notice in - boss says 'wait a few days', knowing that there was a round of redundancies coming up. Two days later, redundancies list comes up, guys name is on it, joins new job a month later with nice redundancy cheque in his pocket. Smile (knowingly) while you're taking the money - they've shown no loyalty to you, why feel guilty?

 

[anglo]

take the money, they won't even remeber your name a week after you go, feck em!

You remember him, what's his name, you know, he used to f*** off on holiday with the Army
to hot sunny places

 

[Jimmy_Green]

You are not stealing the money by taking it, it is compensation for losing your job. The others that were made redundant would have received a redundancy payment. You are entitled to it. Besides, if the job offer that has been made to you gets withdrawn you may well need the money.

 

[RBMK]

The employer is unlikely to have had any scruples in making you redundant, so take the money with a clear conscience.

I took a VR many years ago but I had a reasonable case for constructive dismissal as I was told that I didn't have to leave, but then later told that my job grade would be eliminated during the re-oganisation and that I would effectively be demoted as the job grade above was "full".

I took the money and ran. Took me 2 weeks to find another job i.e. before my 1 month notice finished so walked out with 6 months salary having only worked there for 15 months.

Most larger employers are the same, you're just a number to the accountants.

 

[chrisg46]

Thanks all for the advice, I was pretty much certain i was on safe ground, just wanted a safety check!

@Stainmaster - arse-kisser! Hope you are well!

 

[Dwarf]

What they all said. The Company chose to make you redundant so it's their decision-problem-ethics. Take the wedge and use it wisely on loose women and booze.

If you are worried about Ethics then use the reduncancy to move to Thomerthet.