Rediscovering advanced British WW2 rifle techniques

As some of you are already aware if you frequent the shooing, hunting and fishing forum in these 'ere parts, Rob of Britishmuzzleloaders and myself worked on 3 different advanced WW2 rifle shooting techniques actually appearing in weapons training memoranda when I was in Canada last year. We each made our own video from the footage we took, in our own styles. Rob's are, of course, better than mine :)

The first one, from 1940, involved hip shooting at close range, essentially as an "extension of the bayonet":

My vid:


Rob's version:


In 1944, they "upgraded" this to an instinctive type of shooting, which is the only recorded example we've found so far where the instructions are to press the trigger with the middle finger and keep hold of the bolt. This is a surprisingly modern technique for its era.

Mine:


Rob's


Another one from 1944 was "Advanced Snap Shooting", advancing from 100 to 30 yards, shooting kneeling twice and standing 3 times, in a much more formal range setting. Target exposures were all of 2 seconds, requiring you to halt, aim and fire within that. A very challenging practice.

Mine:


Rob's

The No 4, Mk I* Lee Enfield: Musketry of World War II - Advanced Snap Shooting

Enjoy!
 
If only I could give you a... Like or something!
 
"... only recorded example we've found so far where the instructions are to press the trigger with the middle finger and keep hold of the bolt"

ISTR a thread on WWI musketry where Guardsmen had been trained to fire this way. In those days most Guardsmen were larger chaps so finger positioning & strength made it feasible.

Or did I dream this ?
 
Love the work you guys are doing!

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk
 

WALT

War Hero
Nice work. Informative and interesting. Plus a nice bit of walting (except for the "modern electronic gadget." of course).
 
I have a question (from a non-infantry type) Were CQB drills with a rifle new to the WW2 era, or where they taught in WW1? I would have thought such training would have been useful when trench clearing.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
I have a question (from a non-infantry type) Were CQB drills with a rifle new to the WW2 era, or where they taught in WW1? I would have thought such training would have been useful when trench clearing.
The reason for SMGs, no?

Trench raids were more pistols, knives, cudgels/ knuckle-dusters and grenades - plus body armour.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
I have a question (from a non-infantry type) Were CQB drills with a rifle new to the WW2 era, or where they taught in WW1? I would have thought such training would have been useful when trench clearing.
At different times of the war the training changed to meet the changing battlefield. Up to 1916 all infantry troops received about 8 months training before being sent to the front (New recruits and Kitchener Bns in the main). I have attended lectures on the training where one of the subjects was improvised ranges for trench fighting training for both rifle and pistol. As the methods and weapons developed the training would be brought up to date. Units on rest would be retrained to new tactics although this was usually just before employing them in a raid or offensive.
A lot is made of how technically advanced the artillery was by 1918 but frankly it had become an all arms battle and the integration of arms was magnificent. We tended not to employ storm troop tactics in small units but across the board so all infantry formations would be trained. The Colonial allies had the advantage of square formations not having the reduction to three major formations across the board. This tended to mean they held an advantage numerically compared to UK troops but the training was the same.
Armies, corps and divisions all held training courses where the new doctrines were passed on.
 
The reason for SMGs, no?

Trench raids were more pistols, knives, cudgels/ knuckle-dusters and grenades - plus body armour.
A guy with a rifle has a rifle in his hands and can't just press "2" to switch to an SMG ;)
 
"... only recorded example we've found so far where the instructions are to press the trigger with the middle finger and keep hold of the bolt"

ISTR a thread on WWI musketry where Guardsmen had been trained to fire this way. In those days most Guardsmen were larger chaps so finger positioning & strength made it feasible.

Or did I dream this ?
I've heard such claims, but I've never seen any documentary or photographic evidence of this.
 
Nice work. Informative and interesting. Plus a nice bit of walting (except for the "modern electronic gadget." of course).
It's partly your fault, but mostly Rob's, but I'm expanding my battledress to include some 49 patt to do a Korea representation. It seemed to be the best way to showcase 44 patt webbing while sticking to the Duke of Boot's.

Yes, pandora's box was opened and I fell inside without the need for lubrication :p
 

WALT

War Hero
It's partly your fault
My fault!? It's entirely of your own making.

However the slippery slope was evident when you started wondering about the smell of damp serge.
If it's any consolation, what you're doing is genuinely educational and informative. It's what we claim, but to be honest, for us it's more about wearing old clobber, blowing things up, and in our down time, boozing. Not that that's a bad thing, of course.
 
My fault!? It's entirely of your own making.

However the slippery slope was evident when you started wondering about the smell of damp serge.
If it's any consolation, what you're doing is genuinely educational and informative. It's what we claim, but to be honest, for us it's more about wearing old clobber, blowing things up, and in our down time, boozing. Not that that's a bad thing, of course.
If the like buttons hadn't disappeared, I'd have liked that! Thanks!

What have you got on your sleeve in your avatar, btw? At that resolution it looks just like my DWR / 49th patches :)
 

WALT

War Hero
If the like buttons hadn't disappeared, I'd have liked that! Thanks!

What have you got on your sleeve in your avatar, btw? At that resolution it looks just like my DWR / 49th patches :)
That's cos it is. Leicester Regiment 49th brigade for Overlord. I must confess, that avatar is from 2005, when I first joined Arrse. I was doing some charity stuff with a group from Leicester so I badged accordingly. However, despite the years, I can still get in the uniform! I've since changed it to 2nd Army sapper using (some) of my grandad's original badges.

Maybe I should consider updating my avatar..............
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
"... only recorded example we've found so far where the instructions are to press the trigger with the middle finger and keep hold of the bolt"

ISTR a thread on WWI musketry where Guardsmen had been trained to fire this way. In those days most Guardsmen were larger chaps so finger positioning & strength made it feasible.

Or did I dream this ?
I remember that thread. Made for an immense firing rate.
 
I remember that thread. Made for an immense firing rate.
I was shown this technique once by a grizzly old SAA instructor on Battle Hill Range in Teesdale when we were getting inundated with hailstones and he wanted to get off the point and into shelter, back in the days when we fired No. 4s with the ATC
 

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