red phosphorus grenades

#1
Not sure if this is the right place...

I'm familiar with the WP type,but what is the function of these?
 
#3
jew_unit said:
WP is illegal. If you put red dye in them then they are not banned.
reminds me of our M9 flamethrowers-both of them-which had once-only rupture valves.We could have had them replaced with reseating ones but weren't allowed to because it would have constiuted "modification of a chemical weapon" which is banned by the geneva convention.hence no flamethrowers!
 
#4
jew_unit said:
WP is illegal. If you put red dye in them then they are not banned.
No, WP is not illegal.
 
#5
puzzledgrunt said:
Not sure if this is the right place...

I'm familiar with the WP type,but what is the function of these?
WP will spontaneously ignite on contact with air, so it's a bit of a pain in the arse, especially to store or transport.

RP will not spontaneously ignite on contact with air, but is friction sensitive and can reignite quite easily. RP burns should be treated exactly the same ways as WP burns, i.e emerse in water or if the burn is on the head continually flush with water.

RP gives as good a smoke screen as WP

WP is still used in:
120mm Tk Smk WP
81mm Mortar Smk WP.
 
#6
White Phos burns in air but not water, Red Phos burns in both. Don't ask me why, i'm a copper not a chemist.

I do know that phosphorus in it's natural state is yellow so i presume that each type has a different additive. White is probably magnesium (Burns with a strong white flame in air but not water). Couldn't even guess whats in red phos that makes it so nasty.

Ach well, i'm sure someone knows...
 
#7
As dingerr has insinuated RP is more stable than WP.

A quick google will lead you to find the following:

Red phosphorus may be formed by heating white phosphorus to 250°C (482°F) or by exposing white phosphorus to sunlight. Phosphorus after this treatment exists as an amorphous network of atoms which reduces strain and gives greater stability; further heating results in the red phosphorus becoming crystalline. Red phosphorus does not catch fire in air at temperatures below 240°C, whereas white phosphorus ignites at about 30°C.
Which also answers R_P_C's query.
 
#10
Ration_Pack_Chocolate said:
30 degrees? Safe only for use on Operations in Scotland then...
Temperature doesn't matter, WP is pyrophoric. If it only ignited at 30 degrees plus then WP would have very limited use.
 
#11
RP is only a smoke granade though. Smoke, immidiate I believe as it provides a smoke screen after the bang, rather than having to wait for it to biuld.

It is not an offesive weapon and should not be used as such. As a last resort you can use it to destroy an unrecoverable vehicle. It is not to be used against personel.
 
#13
They are, but we live in an age were all conflicts can be solved if we just sit down a listen to the other persons point of view.
Don't you read the news and watch TV? Using any sort of nasty weapons on the poor Taliban is frowned upon and if you mean para types would just give them a hug, and try and understand why they hate us with ever molecule of their being, we could all just get along.

Pretty soon ever offensive weapon we have will be outlawed.
 
#14
Think you will find that WP melts at 30C. Remember shaking my head in disbelief when the powers that be decided to take WP to Gulf War 1. 120mm Smk WP, 81mm Smk WP and Gren No80 smk WP. IIRC, dont believe any of it survived the fire when the WP area went up in flames, believed to been caused by one of the grenades leaking and spontaneously combusting. One more reason for going with RP.

edited for mong spelling
 
#15
each 'colour' red, white, yellow, black, are the allotropes of phosphorous. Ie, different physical forms of the same element. White phosphorous, as pointed out, spntaneously ignites in air. Red phosphorous does not, but friction causes a change from the red allotrope to the white, which will then ignite in air (this is how matches work, antimony sulphide in the match heads is the fuel, red phosphorous in the striker strip, when rubbed, changes to white, ignites, and lights the match!)

because of the fact that the red phosphorous must first convert to white to burn in air, this is far slower than white phosphorous, hence in this case most likely used for smoke generation rather than for its incendairy effect.

Although, i have to say, i dont have any knowledge of the RP grenade itself, but i am a chemist (student)
 
#16
Onetup3 said:
Think you will find that WP melts at 30C. Remember shaking my head in disbelief when the powers that be decided to take WP to Gulf War 1. 120mm Smk WP, 81mm Smk WP and Gren No80 smk WP. IIRC, dont believe any of it survived the fire when the WP area went up in flames, believed to been caused by one of the grenades leaking and spontaneously combusting. One more reason for going with RP.

edited for mong spelling
Pte Gow MM found WP quite handy in GW1!

T C
 
#17
The_Cheat said:
Onetup3 said:
Think you will find that WP melts at 30C. Remember shaking my head in disbelief when the powers that be decided to take WP to Gulf War 1. 120mm Smk WP, 81mm Smk WP and Gren No80 smk WP. IIRC, dont believe any of it survived the fire when the WP area went up in flames, believed to been caused by one of the grenades leaking and spontaneously combusting. One more reason for going with RP.

edited for mong spelling
Pte Gow MM found WP quite handy in GW1!

T C
The smoke screen produced by WP is quite effective on occasions.
 
#18
Onetup3 said:
The smoke screen produced by WP is quite effective on occasions.

Have you seen 120mm smoke fired? :)
 
#19
81mm smoke is good stuff, fired on delay causes a very pretty Roman Candle effect.
 

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