Red Cap deaths 'not preventable'

#1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4016965.stm
A Ministry of Defence inquiry into the killing of six military policemen in Iraq has found "no conclusive evidence" the deaths could have been prevented.
But it did find the men had not received instructions about how much ammunition they should carry and that communications in the area were "poor".

The men, from 156 Provost Company at Colchester Garrison, were killed by a mob of up to 400 Iraqis in June 2003.

They were attacked at a police station in Majar al-Kabir, southern Iraq.

The Red Caps had gone there to ask local police why they had not helped a Parachute Regiment patrol that had been stoned two days earlier.

The Army board of inquiry found that although there were tensions in the town over weapons searches, an agreement had been reached with tribal leaders that patrols would continue.

RED CAPS KILLED IN IRAQ
Corporal Simon Miller, 21
Tyne and Wear
Sergeant Simon Alexander Hamilton-Jewell, 41
Chessington, Surrey
Corporal Russell Aston, 30
Swadlincote, Derbyshire
Corporal Paul Graham Long, 24
Colchester
Lance-Corporal Benjamin John McGowan Hyde, 23
Northallerton, Yorks
Lance-Corporal Thomas Richard Keys, 20
Bala, North Wales
But an instruction from the battle-group that soldiers should carry 150 rounds of ammunition each failed to reach the military police, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) found.

The six Red Caps only had about 50 rounds each.

However, the inquiry found no evidence that any shortfall of equipment was decisive in the killings.

The inquiry found that command relationships between the 1 Para battle-group and the Red Caps were "confused", leading to uncertainty over military police patrols.

It also found that environmental factors meant communications across the area were poor.

Satellite telephones were available to supplement radios, although these could not guarantee communications. The military police patrol had not taken one of these with them.

The MoD concluded overall that a number of events may have had a bearing on the men's deaths, but that it was impossible to say more ammunition or improved communications might have saved them.
 
#2
what a pile of sh1te!!!

Even if the guys were on a policing action, they should have been given enough round to protect themselves (and radios to request backup)

Not only that but they shouldnt have been sent into that area in the first place. The headsheds new that the locals in the area were foaming because of the behaviour of the paras (only agressive patroling for hidden weapons etc!!)

just a witewash. I hope blair etc meet these guys in the next world (and the Redcaps give them a kicking!)

agent smith
 
#3
so it's impossible to say , if they'd managed to get in a contact report , that the Paras who were already in the town wouldn't of been able to help them out.





one word.



B*LLOCKS.
 
#4
Usual shirking of responsibility associated from TCH and his now, lowly regarded MoD.

Glad to see the Top Brass sticking their neck out for the troops........ :evil:
 
#5
I heard from a bloke who was with 1 PARA during this action, that the RMP had, per SOPs, left their weapons in the vehicle...

The follow up action was a full-on, large scale firefight that saw the Paras requiring Warrior assistance to get the upper hand,

RIP the poor buggers.
 
#6
There are definately some senior slopey shoulder going into action. On the BBC site they say that orders from on high were given that soldiers were to carry 150 rds each, but this order never reached the RMP.
That isn't the issue. They should have had 200 rounds per man minimum issued to them, no a poxy 50, and then the MOD had the cheek to say that ammunition supplies were not an issue in their deaths!!
Stinks to high heaven this.
 
#8
This is another example of an MOD litigation whitewash, the laws of vicariours Responsibility/ liability spring to mind. I can hear the wispers in Whitehall now
lets not blame the units involved. Full blame should be aimed at TCH. Sending a poorly equiped, undermaned Army without the proper kit, and the Gen Sir M Walker for allowing it to happen without having the balls to tell him how it realy is, end of story.
The "we can do" approch by Officers, that TCH has reliyed on so much, is now starting to bite them back it's just sad that man had to die as a result
 

Ventress

LE
Moderator
#10
Why are punters suprised by an inquiry that cost millions to tell us "Oh, MoD aint to blame!" They were never going to say they were in the wrong!

TCH should have resigned years ago!
 
#11
shortfuse said:
so it's impossible to say , if they'd managed to get in a contact report , that the Paras who were already in the town wouldn't of been able to help them out.





one word.



B*LLOCKS.
I thought they did get a contact report out?? didnt the Paras (and Chinook) get bumped as they tried to land the QRF near the town to rescue the RMP`s? The paras then had to extract themselves away under fire?
 
#12
If we were to carry "ready ammo" we would have 180 rounds. 4 Mags for your rifle and 2 mags for the LSW. Also included would be a bandolier of 150 rounds.

50 Rounds is only 1 full mag and 2/3rds another. OK then, being petty, 28 coz of sandy conditions in one and 22 in the other. Less than 2 mags though goes in a flash when on rapid fire which is 1 round every 2 secs.

Being run over in a police station by the En would require you to use rapid fire to suppress the En. That means the RMP only had 100 seconds of ammo with them.

Nowhere near enough……poor guys. And TCH produces that crap of a report. Utter shite.
:evil: :evil: :evil:
 
#13
Have you read the report?

Or more to the point - WERE YOU THERE!!??

If not , then can I suggest your comments are nothing more than guesswork and speculation, mainly based on reporting by journalists. How helpful is that?
 
#15
inbredyokel666 said:
Yet again upstairs show that their shoulders are slippier than a well greased black run.
Sad to say I have to agree with you :x
 
#16
Some of the earlier post blame BLiar and TCH. As much as I want to be in that lynching party to rid the Nation of two serious arrse wipes, it has nothing to do with them. This is down to the Army, pure and simple. We might not have the best kit but we can and do operate with what we've got. Ammo and comms? These are SOP. This is a lack of attention to detail that we became excellent at in NI but lapsed on this occassion. The penalty was the loss of good men.
 
#17
What we are witnessing is the final politicalisation of the Top Brass.

Those who are supposed to operate beyond political ideals have finally succomed to them. Our Top Brass are supposed to act and comment with the troops welfare in their upmost thoughts. However, what is becoming evident is that they now view their pensions and knighthoods as paramount :evil:

TCH and the rest of MoD, top brass included are guilty of this whitewash.

I really do pity any party taking over this bunch of "£$%^& as the civil service, so long viewed as apolitical, will have to be culled of these "scum" :evil:
 
#20
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_793951.html?menu=news.wariniraq

Based only on accounts that I read at the time of the event, I think this massacre was preventable. The red caps were partly responsible, they left their radio in their vehicle. Someone should have made sure they had enough ammunition. They may have felt the town was safe and carrying a full load of ammo was unnecessary. Were they wearing body armor ? If they were going to be in town the paras should have been notified. There were contributing factors to the tragedy. Poor coordination/communications.
Radio left in the vehicle. Had they had a radio they could have called for support and could have gotten it in time. The paras evidently didnt plan for the town to rise up against them and when it happened the only thing they could do was to withdraw. Had the paras supported the red caps to begin with they could have been extracted when the uprising occured. Its a tragedy. Good men died needlessly. In Falluja we had a company commander who didnt follow procedure in house clearing and walked into a room full of insurgents. He died in a hail of bullets. He killed himself by not following procedure.
 

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top