Red Book

#1
If a civvy employer wants to see your Red Book but you've lost it, would you be able to apply to the Army for a copy? If yes, is there a time limit for the Army keeping these records?
 
#2
Hello,
I have just got mine!!!!

Apparently, you can get a copy from MCM Div and I do not think that time is a problem. But I may be wrong.
 
#3
No true civvy employer is interested in your red book, If I hire someone my main concerns are "have they got the skills I need and how fast can they hit the ground running".
Whatever you have done in the forces matters jack
 
#4
Red Books are really about as much use as a chocolate fireguard to a civilian employer - except in one respect. Any civilian employer who knows any thing about the military will know that every soldier gets "Exemplary" under conduct unless they have been a complete criminal. So if you apply to me for a job and I ask you to let me see your Red Book, I can only assume the worst if you will or "can" not produce it.

I would be more interested in your qualifications and the type of experience you offer, just as I would with a civilian applicant. However with ex-soldiers I tend to make assumptions about personal admin, time-keeping, appearance and conduct/attitude. If you don't seem to meet those pre-conceptions then I may look at you in an amber or red light!

Edited to add:

Sorry, I will look at you in an amber/red light whereas I don't make those assumptions about civvies. Which is a funny sort of discrimination when you think about it but I would merely say when I buy ex-forces labour, I am looking for something "other". One of my best gangers is an ex-Leading Seaman RN. He is never late - without clearing it. He picks up the slack on his team. He also drinks lots of tea on my time and whinges about everyone else...typical full screw...but he would crawl to work over broken glass with his legs hanging off by a skin shard and all for £6.50 an hour.
 
#5
McM Div will not replace a lost 'Red Book' But will supply a Certificate of Service which is more or less a certified photocopy of the inside pages which is kept with your personnel records.
 
#6
I left in '94 after 6 years service, not one person has asked to see my red book!
These people include:

4, yes 4, London security companies whilst at uni. (Including Corps of Commissionairs)
Further ed college and university bods.
2 multi-national companies I worked for
Banks, British Legion and Union Jack club.

And I have exemplary


Useful book!
 

Zoid

Old-Salt
#7
I don't think the red book is useful per se, however, on my last job interview, I put together a folder containing, among other things, the testimonial, and my last couple of excellent CR's and an Op Insert.

If you've got good things written about you, I think it shows people that you are not a chopper, you'll work hard like you say you will, and lets someone else do the talking (the folk who wrote those reports).

If you are competing with a pool of candidates, such as some civi's who don't have all that "evidence of character", as is were, it might just help you out. Of course, if you put in all that other shite, like irrelevant army spec quals and pampas printouts, it'll do you no good at all - you just have to be selective and use the bits from your past that will help you out. As time goes by I'd expect it would get more irrelevant, and eclipsed after 2-4 years or so.
 
#10
I have not produced my Red Book for employment but have been asked to give a full account of my employment in the RE supported by documentary evidence of construction tasks completed.

Provided a few non-commital photos described the work as major construction but subject to Official Secrets Act and therefore I was unable to post details but could provide more detail at interview. Never failed to get an interview and got some good work as a result.
 
#11
I suppose it depends on the field of employment but I have never had an employer ask to see my red book. Im employed in the Oil and Gas industry.
 
#13
Exemplary! FFS.

speaking as Ex Inf and and employer I also make assumptions about ex servicemen. Generally the same as Cuddles, but Very Good will do me. I wasn't Exemplary myself.

I always ask for a certificate of service, if only to weed out the walts, although to date I have never managed to find an ex ranker to employ and Ex Officers don't get the red book.

Delboy3,
I presume you work for a contractor? I'm a chartered surveyor and had a bash at recruiting Ex RE blokes who might be interested in getting a professional qualification. No joy though, possibly because the pay is shit until you do qualify (although we pay trainees to do an RICS accredited degree etc, so they do cost us a fair bit). Strangely we got an Ex Arty Officer!
 
#14
GwaiLo said:
Exemplary! FFS.

speaking as Ex Inf and and employer I also make assumptions about ex servicemen. Generally the same as Cuddles, but Very Good will do me. I wasn't Exemplary myself.

I always ask for a certificate of service, if only to weed out the walts, although to date I have never managed to find an ex ranker to employ and Ex Officers don't get the red book.

Delboy3,
I presume you work for a contractor? I'm a chartered surveyor and had a bash at recruiting Ex RE blokes who might be interested in getting a professional qualification. No joy though, possibly because the pay is s*** until you do qualify (although we pay trainees to do an RICS accredited degree etc, so they do cost us a fair bit). Strangely we got an Ex Arty Officer!
Nothing strange about that considering the amount of survey we used to do. Wibble...
 
#15
GwaiLo wrote

Delboy3,
I presume you work for a contractor? I'm a chartered surveyor and had a bash at recruiting Ex RE blokes who might be interested in getting a professional qualification. No joy though, possibly because the pay is s*** until you do qualify (although we pay trainees to do an RICS accredited degree etc, so they do cost us a fair bit). Strangely we got an Ex Arty Officer!
I didn't go the RICS route, I became a member of the CIOB and ABE instead, both fees together are less than the RICS rip-off and my salary hasn't suffered as a result. Lots of ex-Sappers are members of the CIOB and do ok very few would be interested in RICS which is so far up its own arse that even its own members don't like it - no offence meant to you.
 
#16
Cuddles said:
Any civilian employer who knows any thing about the military will know that every soldier gets "Exemplary" under conduct unless they have been a complete criminal.
Exactly what Army did you serve in ? Certainly not the same one as me.
 
#17
The_Dragoon said:
Cuddles said:
Any civilian employer who knows any thing about the military will know that every soldier gets "Exemplary" under conduct unless they have been a complete criminal.
Exactly what Army did you serve in ? Certainly not the same one as me.
I'll rephrase that...all "managers" are instructed to enter "Exemplary" in the conduct line unless they really, really, really weren't.... :twisted:
 
#18
RICS which is so far up its own arse that even its own members don't like it - no offence meant to you.
:lol:

None taken.

RICS is a pain in the proverbial, but on the professional side it is the great door opener. I was MCIOB (let it lapse, too many subs to pay), still am MBEng (I like their mag and courses), but neither have the same recognition in consultancy.

If I could dump RICS membership tomorrow I would, it is expensive and unresponsive, but as anyone who is a member will tell you it is seen as the gold standard by clients worldwide...whether that reputation is deserved is another debate entirely.

I'd have no problems employing MCIOB surveyors though.
 
#19
GwaiLo wrote

RICS is a pain in the proverbial, but on the professional side it is the great door opener. I was MCIOB (let it lapse, too many subs to pay), still am MBEng (I like their mag and courses), but neither have the same recognition in consultancy.
I agree that RICS is, at the moment, the gold standard for surveyors and is out of reach of most ex -Army however the ABE and the CIOB are both performance/practice based Institutes that recognise the abilities and qualities offerred by us and have sensible and achievable mature entry routes which are not entirely degree orientated.

The ABE and CIOB are aimed at practical construction managers and professionals and it remains very possible to earn salaries equal or in excess of those of RICS surveyors. I didn't need the Red Book for membership of either, just a decent history of work done (subject to Official Secrets Act for slack periods) and professional interviews. Both subscriptions come to about 60% of the RICS rip-off and you get loads of support. It is very likely that the ABE and the CIOB will almalgamate and it is equally likely that RICS will see some major disruption in the near future
 
#20
I agree that RICS is, at the moment, the gold standard for surveyors and is out of reach of most ex -Army
It really isn't out of reach, trust me on this. I have my own practice and it has an RICS approved training programme. I am pretty involved with RICS too and I know the routes to membership fairly well.

I suspect that is why I have trouble recruiting ex soldiers (which I am keen to do). They imagine that the qualification of too difficult to get.

I have to say that it frustrates me to read that. I don't know if you are familiar with the list here http://www.thelistuk.com/
but I gave a talk for forces leavers about careers in surveying not long ago.

If a thick as shit Ex Greenjacket with bugger all qualifications (not even a GCSE) can qualify then how difficult can it be really?

I'll tell you what, it was the best thing I ever did.
 
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