Red Arrow Down - 20/03/18

Baglock

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#81
It would have been quicker for you to type "I don't have any credentials, and understand nothing about Airworthiness".

Age isn't an issue for Aircraft as long as it is managed. The Hawks on the RAFAT are subjected to more stringent inspections and a reduced life limiting criteria on certain components precisely because of the flight regime they conduct.

But feel free to comment on a subject you nothing of.
It's the internet, so I will speculate.

Thanks
 
#86
It would have been quicker for you to type "I don't have any credentials, and understand nothing about Airworthiness".

Age isn't an issue for Aircraft as long as it is managed. The Hawks on the RAFAT are subjected to more stringent inspections and a reduced life limiting criteria on certain components precisely because of the flight regime they conduct.

But feel free to comment on a subject you nothing of.
At the end of every season all 10 Red Arrows airframes are stripped down and thoroughly inspected and tested, I live on the end of Scampton runway, and can see that from November onwards a motley collection of Hawks are used to start the training of the 3 new team members. Gradually through January and February this motley collection is replaced by the traditional Red Hawks as they become available after inspection. IIRC the last of the original airframes from 1979 was recently replaced through old age. Some Hawks have been lost in accidents over the years but one was in the original 10 taken on strength by the team in 1979.
 
#87
That pic is very reminiscent of the MiG stouffing in at the 1989 Paris Air Show . It's on You Tube.
I remember watching it happen from one of the hospitality chalets and we were all hoping the pilot, Anatoliy Kvochur, made it, though the angle and altitude he banged out seemed to indicate he wouldn't.
He stayed with the aircraft long enough to pull through into the vertical and avoid it heading for the chalet line.
The BoI was fortunate the incident occurred on press day, so every news media and snapper had it on film. This simplified their task. One of the conclusions, IIRC, was that it was the blast from the a/c hitting the deck that inflated the chute sufficiently to break his fall. He was extremely lucky.
Kvochur was back in the air the following day. As he departed, heading west from Le Bourget, one of the F-16 display pilots, with whom my wife and I were lunching, muttered "I wonder if he'll come back here."
Kvochur was at the wheel of another MiG 29 which piled in at a display in Russia later that year.
When he appeared at Fairford in 1990, his fellow display pilots were heard to ask whether there was any chance they could see his complete routine.
 

Baglock

On ROPS
On ROPs
#88
At the end of every season all 10 Red Arrows airframes are stripped down and thoroughly inspected and tested, I live on the end of Scampton runway, and can see that from November onwards a motley collection of Hawks are used to start the training of the 3 new team members. Gradually through January and February this motley collection is replaced by the traditional Red Hawks as they become available after inspection. IIRC the last of the original airframes from 1979 was recently replaced through old age. Some Hawks have been lost in accidents over the years but one was in the original 10 taken on strength by the team in 1979.
Cheers. I'll speculate on aged airframes no more
 
#89
The survival pack contains all sorts of kit including his dinghy.
It's normally dropped below the pilot once he's released from the seat
I would imagine it's akin to a Para landing with his container still attached
His non life threatening injuries are probably legs and back
I heard about a lot of "ejectee's" having problems with their backs as the spine compresses violently with the force of the ejection.
 
#90
I heard about a lot of "ejectee's" having problems with their backs as the spine compresses violently with the force of the ejection.
Yep, we had an officer student at Middle Wallop who had been an RAF trainee and had to eject from a JP. He was told he could never go through another ejection and was about to be chopped when he had the idea to transfer AAC and was accepted and went through Sandhurst before coming to MW.
 
#92
I heard about a lot of "ejectee's" having problems with their backs as the spine compresses violently with the force of the ejection.
Was that not more with the earlier "gun" ejector seats..? I understand the more modern rocket powered 0-0 seats do less damage (provided you miss the dashboard with your knees!)
 
#93
AIUI a smaller charge than the old gun type to clear the airframe then a rocket motor kicks in with slower acceleration but a slightly longer burn. All in all a smoother ride from what I can gather. Doubtless those on here in light blue will correct me once they've finished checking out the mini bar in their rooms.
 
#94
Are Ground Crew trained to use the ejection seat???
A further yes, and it’s renewed (revalidated) every 6 months. It included ( when I was a nipper) dingy drill in a pool or off the coast of Tenby depending on training schedule. Seat lecture and medical. All had to be signed off on a “chit” iirc.

The Hawk T1 has command eject only from the back seat and it WAS SOP is that it’s disabled for non pilots. Also my briefing it was the last two “ejects” that we’re echos. Possibly the pilot was a bit quicker and more informed to the developing situation than the back seater.

Sad loss...




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#95
AIUI a smaller charge than the old gun type to clear the airframe then a rocket motor kicks in with slower acceleration but a slightly longer burn. All in all a smoother ride from what I can gather. Doubtless those on here in light blue will correct me once they've finished checking out the mini bar in their rooms.
The mini bar and pool are a tad old hat today, so the MK 10 seat (old big “head box” one) that I knew had a 3 charge bang (the Hunter had the same but bigger bang per charge, hence the buggered spine; interesting read if you google Tintagel Hunter crash, about hunter seats in the late 70/80s ) anyway.....the hawk Mk 10 seat, after the 3 bang exit which gets you out of the jet in something like quarter second the rocket motor took over. This had your full kitted weight dialled in to it to ease the whoosh. Pull to chute deployed @ 1.5 secs.

Dingy pack would be a bugger to land on... likely do more damage than the ejection. Yep, legs together tuck n roll not easy with a big glass fibre box on your behind.


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#96
Yes, but they'll get a tie and a dinner courtesy of Martin Baker.
I saw an article about the Martin Baker club a few years back and as soon as I heard about an ejection from the Hawk, k thought "he's got a tie waiting for him."
Was that not more with the earlier "gun" ejector seats..? I understand the more modern rocket powered 0-0 seats do less damage (provided you miss the dashboard with your knees!)
I have no idea, just what I heard. I'm a civvy so it's just an interest. I have no idea what system they use now but I bet it's still a hairy ride!
 

Baglock

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#98
Not the first time. Circa 1988 a Red ejected just after take off at Scampton and landed very close to the jet, which wasn't on fire, but the engine was still running at high power.
Any idea what the likelihood of a fast jet pilot having to eject over the course of a flying career?

1 in 10 chance?
 
#99
Any idea what the likelihood of a fast jet pilot having to eject over the course of a flying career?

1 in 10 chance?
That would be about once a month.

Each.

No idea but 1 in 10s Of 1000s would probably be closer to the mark?

Condolences to family and friends of the Eng.
 

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