Red Arrow Down - 20/03/18

#41
Anyone who flies in an ejection seat equipped aircraft must have passed a medical, been properly fitted with appropriate flying kit, and received ground training on a seat. Red Arrows ‘Circus’ groundcrew rack up quite a few hours on transits when they accompany their aircraft and pilot on land-aways.

Unfortunately, flying is dangerous and still has the capacity to bite.
I was just curious as to why with two on board only one popped.

Maybe best left for the experts,
 
#43
its not uncommon for the reds ground crew to get a trip, i'm sure they start off with a medical and will have had all the briefs needed, its years since i did lift out training on hawks but iirc there was settings for the seats, as in normal use the front seat was the trainee and back seat the instructer
That would be for flying training - QFI in the rear seat.
Otherwise, from experience , non-winged pax are in the rear seat.
Emergency briefings I heard always ended with "If you hear me say 'eject' three times, the third will be an echo".
 
#47
Yes.

Anyone who flies in an ejection seat equipped aircraft must have passed a medical, been properly fitted with appropriate flying kit, and received ground training on a seat. Red Arrows ‘Circus’ groundcrew rack up quite a few hours on transits when they accompany their aircraft and pilot on land-aways.

Unfortunately, flying is dangerous and still has the capacity to bite.

Regards,
MM
It's a much sought after job working for the Blues I believe. Not many opportunities for ground crew to fly in fast jets. My sympathies to the family of crew member who died and my thoughts to the pilot who is currently in hospital.
 
#48
That would be for flying training - QFI in the rear seat.
Otherwise, from experience , non-winged pax are in the rear seat.
Emergency briefings I heard always ended with "If you hear me say 'eject' three times, the third will be an echo".
It was a rafat (red arrows) aircraft. Its normal to have a display pilot in the front and engineer in the back. The RAF have confirmed the rear seater was an engineer.
It kind of goes without saying that in any unusual situation aircrew/pilots will have a much better awareness of ejection and can carry out the drills without much thought. An engineer/ground crew will hacve to put a lot more thought into the process, not good when time is in short supply.

I cant remember if the Hawk has a command ejection system whereby the handling pilot could eject the rear seater too.

RIP to the dead man, thoughts and wishes to his family.
 
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#49
It was a rafat (red arrows) aircraft. Its normal to have a display pilot in the front and engineer in the back. The RAF have confirmed the rear seater was an engineer.
It kind of goes without saying that in any unusual situation aircrew/pilots will have a much better awareness of ejection and can carry out the drills without much thought. An engineer/ground crew will hacve to put a lot more thought into the process, not good when time is in short supply.

I cant remember if the Hawk has a command ejection system whereby the handling pilot could eject the rear seater too.

RIP to the dead man, thoughts abd wishes to his family.
I know it was a Reds a/c. It's been standard practice for years that the Blues fly rear seat whenever possible and especially in transit to away venues where landaways are necessary.
 
#50
The Hawk T1 is certainly fitted with a Command Ejection system. The rear seater can eject the front occupant when it's appropriately selected, but I'm not sure if the Hawk has a setting by which the front seater can eject the rear seat. Whatever happened, it's a very sad day for the Reds and their families.
 
#51
Why not cut out the speculation and wait for the investigation?

RIP to the guy who did not make it.
 
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#52
Hawk has a command ejection system in the rear but didn't (and I don't think this has changed) have the ability for the front seat to initiate ejection for both.

There was a case in 2000 where a 100 Sqn Hawk with a pilot and student navigator (who was on his third flight in a Hawk) ran into a flock of birds; one came into the front cockpit at some speed. The Nav was unable to get a response from the front seat and saw that the blast screen between the two cockpits was covered with blood; he assumed that the pilot was incapacitated and ejected them both. The BOI [as was] declared that while they assessed the Hawk to be flyable after the birdstrike, the Nav's actions were sensible and correct.

Why not cut out the speculation and wait for the investigation?

RIP to the guy who did not make it
With respect, I don't think it's speculation when talking about the seat - it's people attempting to understand whether the Hawk has Command Ejection, to which there is a clear answer, and what sort of procedures are in place for non-aircrew who travel on an ejection seat - again, to which there is a clear answer. Were people talking about control restrictions/bird strikes/etc/etc, then yes, absolutely.

Agree completely with your second line.
 
#53
I know it was a Reds a/c. It's been standard practice for years that the Blues fly rear seat whenever possible and especially in transit to away venues where landaways are necessary.

The Blues are the only RAF personnel trained on the Hawk
Most of the units who operate Hawk the servicing etc is done by civvie contract
So the blues fly with the aircraft so when they land away they can service the jet and turn it around.
They do the full training package including having to swim and get in a dinghy ion full kit and ejection seat training same as the aircrew.

The Reds go to Valley as that's where the Hawk simulator is and they still have to do their simulator training etc to remain current on type.
They've probably spent a couple of days training for all sorts of drama's and then this happens.
Initially the BBC said both P.O.B. had ejected a colleague of mine and myself where joking that at least some young techie had a MB tie and serious bragging rights down the bar.
Very sad to hear the subsequent news
 
#54
bit off thread, years back a hawk had a bird strike and the MDC (det cord) from the canopy ended up wrapped around the pilots neck so he had to fly it and land it, half blind slip stream blasting in and with a live charge wrapped round his neck.
 

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#57
bit off thread, years back a hawk had a bird strike and the MDC (det cord) from the canopy ended up wrapped around the pilots neck so he had to fly it and land it, half blind slip stream blasting in and with a live charge wrapped round his neck.
That must have concentrated the mind!
 
#58
...................It kind of goes without saying that in any unusual situation aircrew/pilots will have a much better awareness of ejection and can carry out the drills without much thought. An engineer/ground crew will hacve to put a lot more thought into the process, not good when time is in short supply.....................

RIP to the dead man, thoughts and wishes to his family.
In 1983, one of the Blues travelling as a back-seater ejected from a Red Arrows Hawk when it hit some power cables whilst transiting over the Scottish Highlands. He didn't wait for the pilot to tell him to leave , he just went. The pilot stayed with the aircraft and made an emergency landing at Inverness. I was having a chat with the guy after he got back to Scampton and needed some "adjustments" done to his personal loan card - he said his thoughts at the time were along the line "Fook this, I'm going", he didn't wait for the pilot to tell him to go. He was the only member in the Sgts Mess who was entitled to wear the famous MB tie.

Sincere condolences to the family of the Cpl Bayliss.
 
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#59
bit off thread, years back a hawk had a bird strike and the MDC (det cord) from the canopy ended up wrapped around the pilots neck so he had to fly it and land it, half blind slip stream blasting in and with a live charge wrapped round his neck.
Ye gods. Eject and you strangle, stay on board and it could go mammaries skywards.
Sounds like a feat of airmanship that one. Steady hand, measured actions while trying to be in control from the waist upwards.
 
#60
best if true tale, fast jet pilot lands tells ground crew "think I've had a bird strike", liney comes round from the rear holding foliage "it must have been sat in the tree then,sir" pilot passes out.
 

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