Recruits unable to close left eye when shooting...

#1
On the ranges this weekend I counted three recruits either wearing an eyepatch or with a plaster over their left eye as "I cannot shut just my left eye."

Your thoughts?
 
#2
mmm the word mong springs to mind, or just to plain lazy to keep one eye closed.
However i have seen this before and it usually ends up with the unable person ending up in a crap firing position due to face being screwed all up on one side making their body lean over (still not sure how) and said person concentrating more on keeping eye closed than the target.
But im not an expert just what ive seen.
 
#4
We had a chap who ended up being the regimental butcher because he fired over 600 rounds at Dechmont ranges one day on the APWT and hit the target.....................once. No matter what the instructors tried he just could not do it. And this was when our Company had Sgts and Cpls who shot at Bisley every year.

Poor guy. Lovely bloke though and a great butcher.
 
#6
Bravo_Bravo said:
On the ranges this weekend I counted three recruits either wearing an eyepatch or with a plaster over their left eye as "I cannot shut just my left eye."

Your thoughts?
They are gonna look silly on Ops with an eyepatch! The Sailsbury Area Social Club SASC would have a fit if they saw that on a range. I found dry firing drills and an eye disk a perfect aid. Do not let them use patches, plasters etc as they become reliant on it. Dry train it out of them, then on to the DCCT and once your happy with them onto the range.
I have had to coach a few people in the past with the same problem. All but two succeded in adopting the correct fire position, one now shoots to the required standard with both eyes open (Weirdo) and the other uses the left eye. Now the left eye causes all sorts of hassle when zeroing and looks really uncomfortable, but they pass the APWT!
 
#7
I had a ta bloke on one of my ranges who, due to an ear operation as a child, had lost muscle control of his right eye! He had been shooting with ironsights for years using his left eye. When the SASC QMSI at the unit saw his fire position he nearly went mental.


Firing with the left eye had worked for him for years, but due to the increased size of the cocking handle on the SA80 A2, he had to learn to fire with his right eye, or else he'd have got a facefull of steel.


In the end we had to replace his ironsight with a susat and essentially retaught him how to fire from scratch.

Last i heard he was in Iraq doing top cover.
 
#9
An occasional problem for me too. I get a number of people every year on Range Days who "cannot" shut the left eye. Some good tips from Baldrick which henceforth I shall be trying.

This will not help with one recent female though who got prone, showed an understanding of the marksmanship principles, adjusted and adopted a good well supported firing position, carefully sorted her sight picture, controlled her breathing then closed both eyes and yanked the trigger whilst letting out a squeal like a stood on cat. EVERY TIME, EVERY FECKIN TIME 8O despite being taken off the firing point and dry trained to death. "OK CSM, take her round the back of the Console and give her 2 X 9MM in the back of the neck for giving us gals a bad name......"
 
#10
just tell them to keep both eyes open. It works, not ideal but the best compromise (and best for ops). Tell them to let the left eye relax and pay more attention to the right. Eye patches rarely work well for this problem as it doesn't translate to the field very well, or to competition!

As for people wo close and flinch when firing fro real, the main problem is the fear of getting the rearsight in the eye. The best way i have found to counter it is to get them to wear a pair of glasses, either plain glass or shades which are not very dark, but don't tell them why! Subconsiously they feel the glasses will protecttheir eyes, thus stop flinching. it probably won't do much for the squealing, though a size 9+ boot might!
 
#11
suits_U said:
mmm the word mong springs to mind, or just to plain lazy to keep one eye closed.
However i have seen this before and it usually ends up with the unable person ending up in a crap firing position due to face being screwed all up on one side making their body lean over (still not sure how) and said person concentrating more on keeping eye closed than the target.
But im not an expert just what ive seen.
There have been quite a few problems like this on ranges. In most cases it's nothing to do with be a mong or being lazy; it's simply down to eye dominance. I am totally left eye dominant and have had fook loads of problems on ranges. (Couldn't hit a cow's arrse with a banjo. It's a bit of a basstardo as I'm an Armourer!) 8)

Patches/plasters or custom glasses can help, keeping both eyes open is also workable, but I normally find that a crate of Stella will get you through with minimum fuss. Either drink it before you get on the range or bribe the RCO with it! If all else fails give the blind buggaz the Gimpy or Jr Gimpy. :wink:

CC_TA
 
#12
I used to be left-eye dominant. Prior to joining the TA, whenever went on the rifles at fairs, I would hold the rifle in my right shoulder and lean my head across at an impossible angle. I couldn't do this with the SLR, so I fired with both eyes open. It's not difficult to do - you still get the right sight picture and hit the target. With time, you can get the left eye to close - my tip for this is to practice winking (two "i"'s - no "a"). Wink alternately left and right eyes, then slow the procedure down until you're able to keep the left eye closed for a long time. It's probably best to do this in private - do it in the pub and you'll probably have one eye closed for several days!

Also with regard to using both eyes, its an advantage at night as you have improved night vision with two eyes and during the daytime, you can scan your arcs with the left while being ready with the right. It's like playing the piano with both hands - with practice, left and right can do two different jobs at the same time.
 
#15
the main problem is the fear of getting the rearsight in the eye. The best way i have found to counter it is to get them to wear a pair of glasses, either plain glass or shades which are not very dark, but don't tell them why! Subconsiously they feel the glasses will protecttheir eyes
I actually tried this on an APWT. The recoil knocked the right lens out of my glasses! :oops:
I've noticed a fair few other people on the ranges with black eyes as well. Perhaps there should be a fifth Marksmanship principle: keep the rear sight sufficiently forward from your eye! I still have no idea how far forward it's meant to be.
 
#16
camnet said:
the main problem is the fear of getting the rearsight in the eye. The best way i have found to counter it is to get them to wear a pair of glasses, either plain glass or shades which are not very dark, but don't tell them why! Subconsiously they feel the glasses will protecttheir eyes
I actually tried this on an APWT. The recoil knocked the right lens out of my glasses! :oops:
I've noticed a fair few other people on the ranges with black eyes as well. Perhaps there should be a fifth Marksmanship principle: keep the rear sight sufficiently forward from your eye! I still have no idea how far forward it's meant to be.
The settings for sights are clear in PAM 5. 22mm between the eyebrow and the rearsight if using Iron sights, The eyebrow should rest lightly on the rubber eyepeice of the SUSAT. The sight should be adjusted in the prone position prior to Zeroing your personel weapon.
A top tips for flinching are using a coin on the barrel with an eyedisk during dry firing drills, For live firing (with the permission of the RCO) reload the firers magazine to include a drill round. As a coach you should be able to pinpoint to the firer were he is going wrong using either of these methods.
 
#17
I find people using eye patches are wussies or ex cadets, can't close you left eye ? Really ? **** off !! Get to specsavers you ******* optical cripple
 
#18
In my old, bold days of .22 target shooting I was trained to shoot with both eyes open but the left defocussed.

It was something to do with dilation of the pupils: with one eye shut that pupil dilated casuing the other to do the same. That then led to the open aiming eye not being as efficient.
 
#19
Camnet and Baldrick, I'm no expert on this and have never actually sat down and read PAM 5, but surely the iron sight on SA80 is designed to adjust to one of three fixed positions, with the plunger at the base of the central securing screw in one of the co-responding dimples between the rails.

I wear glasses and find that with it in the forward position, I can fire perfectly well without getting a face-full of metal.
 
#20
no the iron sight can be placed anywhere on the rail the blind holes are for other optics (never made it out of concept).

as for not being able to close their left eye - this is usually an eye dominance thing. i am left eye dominant - i find it awkward to close my left eye - it comes with practice and a bit of self discepline. i have been shooting since i was 5 years old and by the time i joined the army had it under control, most left eye dominant people dont get that much exposure to shooting, so when they join the army, closing thier left eye is new and alien to them, and lets be fair - you dont do that much range time in this mans army and in the TA its even less. so be patient and it will come to them. practice makes perfect.

finally - use the beret as a make shift eye patch - pull it round a bit so the cap badge is behind the left ear and the excess is pulled down over the left eye.

ultimately the only way to help them is lots of range time (and not in the buts either)

Rincewind