(Recruitment query) LE Commision prospects.

#1
Question:

How do the promotion prospects, particularly for Late Entry Commision, in Int Corps compare to those in Crab-Air's equivalent?

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New poster anti-Spam/Wah/Flame notes:



Firstly, thank-you to everyone who posted in the stickies, particularly NTTT, Dubb_al_Ibn, Devexwarrior, Beechams & SFA.

The reputation of this forum is well known, and it is not without intrepedation, nor completely without dilligence, that I venture forth to expose my ignorance.

AFCO literature suggests, "In line with everyone else", however they elsewhere state that there are more Int Corps officers promoted from the ranks than in other arms and services.

As otherwise, the roles appear broadly similar (from this side of the smokescreen, anyway), and as port, cheese and poor navigation are an integral part of my future career plan (FCP), I'd be well grateful to hear if there are any considerable differences at that stage in the game.

Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. I did search, but if not thoroughly enough would appreciate a pointer to the post I missed. If I did miss it, it's only because I'm a mong, and discrimination against mongs is no longer allowed.

All aside, I appreciate that a lot of space is used up by recruitment questions, and will be grateful for any help provided.

I'm not CR. I promise.
 
#2
Apples and oranges. You can't compare Crab Air with a military organisation like the Intelligence Corps. We commission quite a lot of warrant officers, it's highly unusual in their int branch, as the crusty old buggers have a career structure to 55 "below the salt". They do cream off some people at the SAC/JT/Cpl level to go orf to Cranners, but that's for what we'd call a DE commission. To the best of my knowledge - and I stand to be corrected here - there are vanishingly small prospects for LE commissions in the paramilitary wing of the Air Cadets.

The balance between DE and LE officers in the Corps is also a somewhat contentious subject; successive Directors have had varying views on the desirability or otherwise of having too many LE officers hanging around making the DEs feel professionally threatened.

I can't imagine that we'll ever fall below the Army average in terms of % of officers LE, though and would expect us to remain well above the average, for simple reasons of practicality and professional necessity - the LE officer is a subject matter expert and the DE officer is a leader and manager, although, obviously, there's a wide overlap and you will see LE officers in command and Staff appointments and DE officers in "professional" roles.

Oh - and Crab Air promotion in the ranks is glacially slow.
 
#3
You're not getting a bite over here Hibs Bez
 
#4
Many thanks, Glad. Might just have saved me from doing something foolish.
 
#7
Nearly correct. Exceptional WO2's can apply for commission (as long as they are supported by the Chain of Command). However, to date I can think of no-one who has achieved this.

With a change of DINT, will there be a change of this policy I wonder...
 
#8
Ironically the only "LE snobbery" I have ever encountered was the same thing twice, once from an LE and once from a very junior DE who got all "you aren't a propper officer" merely because I hadn't been a WO1 (or a WO2 for that matter) prior to commisioning. Everyone else has been fine.

TIn hat on and ready for incoming.
 
#10
Howayman said:
Nearly correct. Exceptional WO2's can apply for commission (as long as they are supported by the Chain of Command). However, to date I can think of no-one who has achieved this.
I'm sure between myself and a few Warrant Officer colleagues we could quite quickly come up with a list of Intelligence Corps "Warrant Officers" who had been Commissioned at about the 12 year point.

In more recent times there may have been a whim to select only from WO1, providing some temporary semblance of equity between the services. However a scan of past course photos in JSPI and Sqn photos from Brampton will find you a few more of these exceptional Intelligence Corps high-flyers 8O .
 
#11
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
devexwarrior said:
"you aren't a propper officer"
that was nothing to do with DE / LE. it was because you're an edumacator ;)
the DE in question was a fellow edjumicator and the LE was a Gunner......not sure if that is relevant or not. You can take the boy out of the block........
 
#12
adastra said:
I'm sure between myself and a few Warrant Officer colleagues we could quite quickly come up with a list of Intelligence Corps "Warrant Officers" who had been Commissioned at about the 12 year point.

In more recent times there may have been a whim to select only from WO1, providing some temporary semblance of equity between the services. However a scan of past course photos in JSPI and Sqn photos from Brampton will find you a few more of these exceptional Intelligence Corps high-flyers 8O .
My bold, I have changed the colour to reflect your envy.

There can never be any semblance of equity between the services, one is the senior service and one is the junior, the middle one quite rightly lauds it over yours.
 
#13
Never having even a thought of becoming an Officer in the Corps (if you want to win the lottery you may have to buy a ticket - or be on `The Square" even :wink: ) I cannot really comment on this topic.

However, I recall a recent conversation in a drinking establishment where a recently promoted LE was elevated to his Majority and wondered out loud why he had been selected - a witty retort made from at least two former W01's and a couple of W02's (applied and did not get) in union was:
"Because we left you soft twat"

Suffice to say that they then went on to compare bank balances !

Directorate - "So TMA for the third time do you want to be Corps RSM ?
TMA - "How many times do I have to tell you NO!"
Directorate - "Best get a girlie in again then !
D :twisted:
 
#14
Minnesota_Viking said:
My bold, I have changed the colour to reflect your envy..
Are you sure it was my envy and not the colour of my irony?

From what I heard in 6 IA Coy in those "good old days" most of theose "exceptional individuals" got Commissioned at the 12 year point only by climbing over the backs of their subordinates. Some might suggest that at the 12 year point, they had barely understood the responsibilities of an NCO, yet alone a Warrant Officer.

Perhaps you had never heard of " the Backstabbers"?

With your nose up the OC's arse it can be difficult to see how your blokes are getting on was a comment I heard more than once.

Forbid that they would ever Commission anyone at the 12 year point just to make up the Officer's numbers. :oops:

Which troop rotation train did you fall off the back of MV?
Or did you come down the Elbe in a barrel?
 
#15
adastra said:
Minnesota_Viking said:
My bold, I have changed the colour to reflect your envy..
Are you sure it was my envy and not the colour of my irony?

From what I heard in 6 IA Coy in those "good old days" most of theose "exceptional individuals" got Commissioned at the 12 year point only by climbing over the backs of their subordinates. Some might suggest that at the 12 year point, they had barely understood the responsibilities of an NCO, yet alone a Warrant Officer.

Perhaps you had never heard of " the Backstabbers"?

With your nose up the OC's arse it can be difficult to see how your blokes are getting on was a comment I heard more than once.

Forbid that they would ever Commission anyone at the 12 year point just to make up the Officer's numbers. :oops:

Which troop rotation train did you fall off the back of MV?
Or did you come down the Elbe in a barrel?
As ever, complete bo11ocks.
 
#16
devexwarrior said:
CRmeansCeilingReached said:
devexwarrior said:
"you aren't a propper officer"
that was nothing to do with DE / LE. it was because you're an edumacator ;)
the DE in question was a fellow edjumicator and the LE was a Gunner......not sure if that is relevant or not. You can take the boy out of the block........
I wondered where FTB had gone.
 
#17
Howayman said:
Nearly correct. Exceptional WO2's can apply for commission (as long as they are supported by the Chain of Command). However, to date I can think of no-one who has achieved this.

With a change of DINT, will there be a change of this policy I wonder...
It would be about par for the course. His train set, his rules etc. Even those who decreed that WOs1 can be commissioned from the ranks managed to commission the odd one or two during their tenure.
 
#18
adastra said:
Minnesota_Viking said:
My bold, I have changed the colour to reflect your envy..
Are you sure it was my envy and not the colour of my irony?

From what I heard in 6 IA Coy in those "good old days" most of theose "exceptional individuals" got Commissioned at the 12 year point only by climbing over the backs of their subordinates. Some might suggest that at the 12 year point, they had barely understood the responsibilities of an NCO, yet alone a Warrant Officer.

Perhaps you had never heard of " the Backstabbers"?

With your nose up the OC's arse it can be difficult to see how your blokes are getting on was a comment I heard more than once.

Forbid that they would ever Commission anyone at the 12 year point just to make up the Officer's numbers. :oops:

Which troop rotation train did you fall off the back of MV?
Or did you come down the Elbe in a barrel?
There's a place to send people that don't understand the responsibilities of an NCO after 12 years, it's called the RAF!
 
#19
There is no comparison between LE commissioning between the Corps and the RAF.

devexwarrior said:
Ironically the only "LE snobbery" I have ever encountered was the same thing twice, once from an LE and once from a very junior DE who got all "you aren't a propper officer" merely because I hadn't been a WO1 (or a WO2 for that matter) prior to commisioning. Everyone else has been fine. TIn hat on and ready for incoming.
I can sort of see their point, presuming you commissioned as a SSgt lets say, they maybe saw you as a bit of a half breed ie neither a true LE nor a proper DE. If you missed the years holding a Queens Warrant (fairly exclusive club) you then also missed the step up in game that being a WO requires but also, you were perhaps broadly comparable in age (by the time the DE did University then joined etc) as the young blueblood but you clearly aren't a DE. Maybe they took offence at your spelling? :roll:

As long as you are content with what you've done and clearly you've done well, then happy days and why should you care what others think? If you can justify to yourself then smile happily and enjoy.

I know of a few LE's within the Corps who commissioned from WO2 and in pretty much the same proportion to the rest of the community, some have been d1cks and some have done great things. Maybe young thrusters who commission from Sgt/SSgt could be known as IE's? :D :D :D (Intermediate Entry)
 
#20
The_Laird said:
There is no comparison between LE commissioning between the Corps and the RAF.

devexwarrior said:
Ironically the only "LE snobbery" I have ever encountered was the same thing twice, once from an LE and once from a very junior DE who got all "you aren't a propper officer" merely because I hadn't been a WO1 (or a WO2 for that matter) prior to commisioning. Everyone else has been fine. TIn hat on and ready for incoming.
I can sort of see their point, presuming you commissioned as a SSgt lets say, they maybe saw you as a bit of a half breed ie neither a true LE nor a proper DE. If you missed the years holding a Queens Warrant (fairly exclusive club) you then also missed the step up in game that being a WO requires but also, you were perhaps broadly comparable in age (by the time the DE did University then joined etc) as the young blueblood but you clearly aren't a DE. Maybe they took offence at your spelling? :roll:

As long as you are content with what you've done and clearly you've done well, then happy days and why should you care what others think? If you can justify to yourself then smile happily and enjoy.
I know of a few LE's within the Corps who commissioned from WO2 and in pretty much the same proportion to the rest of the community, some have been d1cks and some have done great things. Maybe young thrusters who commission from Sgt/SSgt could be known as IE's? :D :D :D (Intermediate Entry)
I am and I do :D

Incidentally on your last point, as of a couple of years ago LEs from WO 1 or 2 go straight on to Intermediate Reg Commission (LE) for service to age 50 whilst SSgt and below go onto Short service Commission (LE) for 6 years service or to the 22 year point whichever is the longer and can apply to go onto IRC(LE) after 2 years. (At the point when they introduced this all remaining SSC(LE) then serving went onto IRC(LE) automatically irresepective of background.)
 
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