Recruitment eligibility

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by tebagagap, May 9, 2005.

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  1. Hi,

    Posting on behalf of a friend.

    My mate was in the RLC, was discharged in 2000 due to receiving a civilian conviction for ABH and sent to a Young Offenders Institution for 3 Months (Serving 5 Weeks in an open prison).

    He got done for ABH after assaulting a guy who had slapped a women (both known to him) in the street, the guy pressed charges, women stuck by her man and the judge wasn't lenient. He went to court, ordered to wear No 2's and was represented by a 2Lt straight out of Sandbags who had the opportunity to defend the soldier but declined.

    Magistrate "So Lt, I assume you are going to tell me that this man is a worthwhile soldier and will be dealt with by the army or words to that effect"
    2lt: "yes sir"
    Magistrate "anything else?"
    Personally I think he was let down by his supposed the way, I was there.

    Now he's kept out of trouble for 5 years, had steady jobs and wants to join the TA. He's as fit as they come and was Infantry trained (was a pioneer). I called the RFCA and a really rude woman there who seemed like she couldn’t be bothered said it wasn't worth trying.

    I know there is a lot of TA people on this and some perhaps who deals with recruiting. He wasn't in the Army long, but he definitely caught the bug and wants to come back.

    I know this is long winded but this site is great for the fun stuff and things like this.

    If you can help please PM me
  2. Er, have only been to court with sldrs a couple of times, and it's been a while, but I'm fairly sure you're actually only allowed to detail the 'good eggedness' of the guy on a sliding scale set down in QRs, from Outstanding, or something, for a first offence, down to Godawful if this is the sixth time in as many months. That, and say what effect any punishment would have on the soldier's career (i.e. "He's a driver by trade and if you take away his license he'll be fcuked). And that's yer lot. Or else you'd constantly get earnest young subalterns who wished they'd worked harder at school and become a barrister, launching into four hour impassioned speeches about fundamental privileges of the English common man, and finishing with the words, "And that, Your Honour, is why you shouldn't punish Gunner Jones for being found asleep by the coppers with his hand stuck in a vending machine...The defence rests..."
  3. Paddy,

    Try asking the online career advisory team at:

    If you don't get a satisfactory answer out of them (and they should be able to give you full advice on the rules regarding previous convictions and spent convictions), then please feel free to PM and tell me what they said, and I will do some digging for you.


  4. If he left the army with anything other than "Exemplary" on his little red book then I think he's fcuked. I would tell him to go ask a local TAC and the PSAO will be able to tell him either way. Hope this helps.
  5. Cheers everyone,

    His little red book says Discharged - Misconduct, but only because of recieving a civilian conviction he had to be discharged.

    It's kinda a catch 22.

    He did it when he was too young to to real prison, the conviction is now spent and the army would look at him if he hadn't already served. Its just a shame if he cant get back in, by all accounts he's a switched on cookie who was top blokey at ITC.

    I'll have to get him to a PSAO, unless we have one on here who wishes to comment?

    Thanks Again
  6. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer

    Not entirely true. I recently enlisted (having first secured permission to enlist from APC Glasgow) a soldier who had left the Regular Army with a 'Satisfactory' rating, having served some weeks at MCTC prior to his discharge.

    The distinction seems to lie in the manner of his seperation from the army. If he was involuntarily dismissed, his chances aren't good. In such instances the RTT NCOIC or PSAO should send a request for Permission To Enlist to APC, but I've had a similar case (drunk driving, driving without due care etc.. sentanced by German civvie court) where the verdict came from on high and read like a resounding F Off.

    Best of luck to your mate either way.
  7. Best of luck to your mate, I can't offer him any advice but still, sounds like he got fucked up good and proper, how could any man stand by and watch a woman get beaten and not step in.
  8. An Officer attending court with one of his soldiers is not there to 'defend' that soldier. That would be the job of a solicitor - not some poor 2Lt that's been jiffed with this duty.

    The Officer's main duty at the Magistrates' Court is to assist the Magistrates with any military matters they may not be sure on e.g. "2Lt X, if I ban Pte X from driving for X months, what will the Army do?", "Well Sir, because this soldier is required to drive for his job, it will result in £x being docked from his pay" etc etc. This is why the Officer will always be carrying Queens Regs, and other info provided by the clerks.

    The Officer is also there to provide his soldier with support, especially when dealing with solicitor that the court provides (presuming that soldier doesn't already have one), and to help provide details of that soldier's current conditions (i.e. mostly how much he's being paid).

    Yes it is true that occasionally the magistrate will occasionally ask the Officer for a character reference (which 9 times out of 10 will simply invlove "Pte X is a good chap who's good at his trade etc etc"), but this is not usually the case, as the soldier's character is usually delt with by the soliciter anyway.

    I suppose the point I'm getting at is that it's completely unfair to suggest that the 2Lt didn't properly 'defend' his solider, because after all, that is not his job.

  9. According to page 4 and 5 of AF E7560 Territorial Army Enlistment Certificates.

    Para 2 states:

    'Under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (which applies to both civilians and service personnel) some convictions can be ignored after varying periods of time. They then become known as "spent" convictions and the periods are set out below:' [It then goes on to list the main conviction types and the time needed to consider them "spent"]

    Para 3 states:

    'When a person wishes to join the Regular Army or the Territorial Army, and he or she does NOT wish to serve in the Royal Army Medical Corps, the Adjutant General's Corps (Provost Branch), the Royal Army Dental Corps, or the Queen Alexandra's Royal Army Nursing Corps, then when the personcompletes an applicationform or answers any questions about civil convictions he or she is entitled to disregard any "spent" convictions which he or she may have had and disclose only those which remain unspent. But should that person wish to serve in any of the special corps or employments already mentioned, then under the provisions of the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (Exceptions) Order 1975 he or she is required to give details of all "spent" convictions as well as those which are unspent.

    Para 5 goes on to state:

    '... Should you decide, in your case, that you wish to disclose what may be "spent" convictions, then you should know that, except for entry into the corps mentioned in paragraph 3, no "spent" convictions may be taken into account in deciding your suitability for service and you are assured that under no cirrcumstances will it be so considered.'

    A long winded reply to a long winded question, but from this I would understand that:

    If the conviction is "spent" then there is no need to mention it.

    As the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974 (...applies to both civilians and service personnel) then the army can not consider any "spent" convictions either.

    This of course does not get round the problem of the discharge pappers, however it does, I would imagine, produce a case for 'special enlistment' to overcome this.

    Hope this helps