Recruiting from the Islamic/Ethnic Community/ies

#1
On another thread,

strut_jack said:
Some years ago, about 11 in fact I found myself on exercise with a certain TA battery from a certain thriving Northern Metropolis. Amongst the lads who were in the gun sub I found myself on was a young asian lad, I remember thinking that it was a good thing that he felt comfortable enough with his mates on the sub and that they, for all the banter, were actually tolerant enough that he disappeared behind a huge stack of ammunition to say his prayers without any problem. And he was a good lad, not like the humourless little fundamentalist twonk who joined the UOTC in the same TA centre.

The really pernicious thing about little scrotes like the subject of this thread and the wastes of skin who were the 7/7 murderers is that a young gunner like that would now find himself under suspicion, and that his commanders find themselves placed in the position of having to harbour doubts about him, even mild ones.
.

I was wondering how this mindset affects recruiting at your unit?

I personally remember being on a recruiting stand a few years ago, when I was approached by a Sikh lad who was already in the RLC TA who wanted to transfer to the Inf but didn't know how to go about it. I took his details and promised to get stuff sent out to him. A couple of minutes later, a senior Tom turned around to me and said:

S-T "I hope you sent him on his way"

GG "Um, no"

S-T "We don't want them Islamics in this battalion, anymore of 'em ask, send 'em elsewhere"

GG "But he wasn't ev.."

S-T "ELSEWHERE!"

GG "Right you are".

I didn't have the moral courage to stand up to him, although I'm fairly sure I would nowadays.

Before you ask why I've brought this up, as can be seen in other threads, the TA is in the middle of a recruiting crisis. I believe that the TA is failing to recruit from Ethnic Communities (esp from India and the rest of the sub continent) and that it's suffering as a result of it. Admittedly on the down side we've got:

1) The security threat - people from these communities aren't screened in the way that people with Irish relatives are CTC checked.

2) Mixed loyalties - although linked to the above not quite the same (The "Ummah", not the website, the ideology)

But on the Plus side

1) Zeal - some immigrants have a tendency to become more "Roman than the Romans" to coin a phrase. It would be good to harness that.

2) The security threat - better to have them inside the tent p*ssing out than outside the tent p*ssing in.

3) Feeder recruitment for the regs - Yes, under OAR I know that we're meant to be doing that anyway, but just think. Part of well documented Immigrant Psychology theory is that parents will do jobs that are extremely hard work, simply so that their progeny can have a step up in life. Singh Snr is not going to be incredibly happy that after 20 years of long hours and hard graft for very little reward, Singh Jnr doesn't want to be a banker/doctor/accountant/all the jobs his dad never had a chance of doing, he wants to join the PWRR as a tom instead. But the Singh family may have less of an objection to him doing it part time. He may then transfer over (stranger things have happened).

4) More contact between the military and the wider community. A lament often heard on this site is that most civilians have never met a soldier, TA or Reg. That gap is presumably wider in the ethnic/immigrant community. Surely closing that gap can only be a good thing.

Penny for your thoughts?
 
#2
theres just a security ploblem with extreamists like BNP joining the ranks.

its not because they are islamic or of another minority, the ploblem is narrow minded fundamentalism, no matter what is thier race religion or kreed.
and all peoples of all nations have thier bigots and haters, all of us.


now if you excuse me i'm poping out for a 'moderate' drink at the pub................. na fuk it! i'm going out for an 'extreamist' drink at the pub haha.
 
#3
gingwarr said:
Penny for your thoughts?
A good idea but those I do know in the TA had to face a large amount of pressure from family telling them to leave when Iraq started to kick off.

I'm not to sure about the security side of it thou, I'm sure someones got the foot on the pedal (I hope)
 
#4
I say lets worry about their qualities as a potential soldier and leave that orange form to decide whether they are an Abdullah al akbar Karim member or not!

The TA and the reg army has bigger worries with the quality of the people it employs!
 
#5
Just my tupence worth for those who have never worked with Sikh Soldiers,

You will never come across a more genuine, hard working, friendly and fierce warrior than these chaps. Had a Sikh Oppo for a very long time and you wouldn't want for anything. The guy you would want on your side in a firefight.

The Sikhs have a long history of British service dating from indian empire times.

Salt of the Earth.
 
#6
We had a Muslim guy leave us to join our 1st Battalion , after FTRS'ing and deciding he liked it.

This individual was part of the break in into the sandy place , and by all accounts , a damn fine soldier.

He is out now , but for all the 1st Battalion spotters lurking , he's starting to get homesick :D
 
#9
Do you have acrobat reader on your PC?
 
#11
Er, so what isn't working? The contents of it ;)

msr
 
#12
DrStealth said:
theres just a security ploblem with extreamists like BNP joining the ranks.

its not because they are islamic or of another minority, the ploblem is narrow minded fundamentalism, no matter what is thier race religion or kreed.
and all peoples of all nations have thier bigots and haters, all of us.


now if you excuse me i'm poping out for a 'moderate' drink at the pub................. na fuk it! i'm going out for an 'extreamist' drink at the pub haha.
Thanks for that poorly spelt, badly worded tirade. You have also succeeded in not even making what you are saying clear. Are you saying you are extremist? Instead of reading (although I doubt you could) Mein Kampf, I suggest you try a dictionary!
 
#13
hellfyyr said:
DrStealth said:
theres just a security ploblem with extreamists like BNP joining the ranks.

its not because they are islamic or of another minority, the ploblem is narrow minded fundamentalism, no matter what is thier race religion or kreed.
and all peoples of all nations have thier bigots and haters, all of us.


now if you excuse me i'm poping out for a 'moderate' drink at the pub................. na fuk it! i'm going out for an 'extreamist' drink at the pub haha

Thanks for that poorly spelt, badly worded tirade. You have also succeeded in not even making what you are saying clear. Are you saying you are extremist? Instead of reading (although I doubt you could) Mein Kampf, I suggest you try a dictionary!
i appologise for my dyslexia and bad grammer struture, i never could be arrsed at school to be bothered to learn to speel. i have also been drinking all day which dos not help, (mates birthday)

what i am trying to state is that extreamist beliefs are not exclusive to the fundamentalist of religious minoritys in the UK, the ideals of the BNP are just as hateful and bigoted with thier own narrow view and take upon the world.
i belive we need more minority representation in the military, islamic, skih, asian, green with pink poka-dots, or whatever they happen to be, to reflect the diversity of the population of the UK at large.
no, i dont belive this should be inforced by 'quota' or any other methord of PC madness, but by activly cooperating with minority moderate leaders to get more of them to join.


"now if you excuse me i'm poping out for a 'moderate' drink at the pub................. na fuk it! i'm going out for an 'extreamist' drink at the pub haha"
the only thing i belive in to excess is alcohol consumption, if there is a god alcohol is the way for him to say he loves me and wants me to be happy.

i consider myself to be a athiest, moderate, working class socialist,

i have studied 'mein kampf' by that little shite, i got a laugh out of it over his selective reasoning and the way its written to appeal to the worst of the human traits.
personaly i tend to read a lot of historical biographys.

FYI i have a mixed race child of my own, hes a pacific islander (NZ maori) and an islamic. his family converting quite a few years ago.

hope you have fun playing spell checker over my post.

sitting here with a beer and my middle finger raised in your trite direction,

love stealth.


PS yout not a rupert are you?
 
#14
Stealth,
No I am not a Rupert but fortunately I am not as confused as you...

Stealth clearly needs to be a Doctor, Socialist, alcoholic, atheist, moderate, working class, dyslexic political advisor etc.

While you are drinking your beer, you may wish to consider why you bothered posting in the first place and just crack back on with bigging yourself up in the mirrror (The Daily Mirror most probably).

You talk a lot but don't actually have anything to say sadly...
 
#15
nope sorry, i mostly tend to reflect in the independant


coff coff :roll:
 
#17
The army needs more people who can do the job.

Diversity alone will not enhance the army, unless you think that the presence of non-whites somehow arbitrarily improves an organisation (which would be a racist assertion) - a better policy is to select on the basis of merit rather than aiming to improve numbers on skin colour.

Equality is not an issue that much thought should be put into, because TA and Army are not inclusive - there are many people who want to join the army who simply cannot for various reasons, why not reach out to them? There should be no recruitment drive, because if decent ethnic recruits were to apply I seriously doubt that they would be turned away. I am sure that regular, non-racially specific recruitment drives attract enough minorities already and if not it is their loss.

As far as Sikhs are concerned, UK and Sikh culture have a long history which has been beneficial to both sides.

It is lesser known that Islam and Muslims were honoured after WW2 for their loyalty to the empire by building Regents Park Mosque, yet it is also worth remembering that the Nazis also had a Muslim regiment thanks to the recruitment skills of Palestinian Mufti Amin al-Husseini.

The BNP are a political organisation who have never used violence, whereas Islamic terrorists are people who have used violence. I don't think that Muslims should be turned away, but there is no value/need to specifically target them for recruitment - the Army is about soldiering, not a publicity machine for PC politicians.
 
#18
Two problems I have personally encountered:

The first - Asian families (in particular) tend to be far closer than your average ethnically Brit family and so the opinions of Mum, Dad, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts and uncles matter. I don't see the supporting media campaigns to help us overcome the drip, drip, drip anti-army propaganda that is working against us.

The second - such campaigns as there are seem to believe that a leaflet with a coloured soldier on is the same thing as campaigning for "ethnic" recruits. I met a fantastic young lady - honours graduate, fit as feck, orienteer who (IMHO) would have been a perfect candidate for Offr Trg or a flyer in the ranks. She got as far as the leaflets in the recruiting office before deciding that she didn't want to be the centre of all attention just because she was a dark-skinned female in an environment dominated by pale-skinned males. She specifically did not want to become the TA's latest poster girl but I could not give her any guarantee that she would not come under extreme pressure to be so. And everyone she met asked her if she would be willing to help recruit - particularly into her "own" community.

The way forward has always seemed to me to become colour-blind and recruit ability not ethnicity. If we feature a coloured soldier or officer as our poster boy or girl then it needs to be a photo of them doing a real job, not just being coloured in uniform.
 
#20
DrStealth said:
nope sorry, i mostly tend to reflect in the independant


coff coff :roll:
The Independant? Why can't you make your own mind up then? :twisted:
 
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