Re: Dodgey News (radio)

[woopert]

The difficulty comes in that the liberal intelligencia have hijacked the immigration agenda to the extent that to openly dissent from their view is to be labelled "Racist". This is further advanced by a liberal media who influence views.

10 years ago anyone who advocated immigration control would have been able to enter the debate. In the last election the Labour party led the charge in signing a decleration saying they would not enter into debate that would be "racist" and challenged the Tory's to do the same. It was a tool byt which they could claim that arguing that immigration controls should exist is a "racist" ploy, and by not signing they copuld paint the Torys as racists because it was a clear indication that they were not prepared to leave race off the agenda.

The consequence of this liberal siezure of the middle ground and "mobile" policy base is that it is difficult for the centre-right to find a position that is counter to the liberal position which is vague and undefined. The liberals wish to see an almost open door policy with the white middle classes propping up an already over-burdened state support for all the "oppressed who seek refuge". I really don't know what fuels this mea culpa on their part, but it exists. So what does this leave us? The likes of the BNP, who let's face it, are hardly the sharpest intellectual tools in the box.

If you want to answer the question about painting a flag, let's start by asking what would happen if you painted a Union Flag in Britain, let alone Pakistan. Painting the national flag of the UK in the UK is enough to be branded a racist, that is how demented the argument has become.

It really is about time some common sense was applied. When I take over the world (and I will!) my policies will be simple:

1. Asylum will be granted to those in dire need or fear of persicution. They will be allowed to stay in the UK without recourse to public funds to be supported by their own immigrant community. If granted asylum they will be allowed to work and will be taxed to pay for health and education. No other benefits will be applicable. Citizenship will not be granted to the person granted asylum or his/her immediate descendants, but they will have the permanent right to live and work in the uk. Children may apply for citizenship when they reach the age of 18.

2. Permits to work will be issued to those who wish to enter this country for productive purposes. The length of stay would be 5 years for unskilled and 10 years skilled/professionals. They will pay tax and their families would have health and education, but no recopurse to public funds. After continuous residence of 25 years they may apply for British citizenship.

3. All applicants for British citizenship must take a course with examination on the history of Britain. All new Britons will be encouraged to learn English and basic proficiency will be a pre-requisite of citizenship (the argument based on a common language functionality being essential to social progression)

4. Breaking the law  to the extent a prison sentence is awarded while granted asylum or on a work visa will mean immediate deportation to the country of origin on completion of the sentence.

Counter arguments if you will?

 

[wHoSaIdThAt?]

Sounds perfectly fine to me!

As to the earlier comment of painting flags, I believe it is now not acceptable to fly the nations flag on some midlands government/council buildings!

Where is the line between nationalism/patriotism/racisim, and who decided it?

 

[PartTimePongo]

Now, all of you, with the exception of Woopert, are going to be wondering where your replies went.

Here's how it works, effective immediate.

There will be NO promotion of Political parties, their views, manifestos or ideals on this part of the site.

There will especially be no promotion or Far Left or Far right parties and I am NOT going to waste my time, comparing the ideologies of the British National Party or the National Front, when it is documented fact they sprang from the same branch.

If anyone wants to promote their views, that the BNP, FBU or SWP is a caring sharing entity, that only wants the best for it's members/voters/Britain then don't use an ARMED FORCES forum as a soapbox.

Woopert is right. Until the Government gets a backbone, be it Tory/Liberal or Neue Labour , then pond life on all sides of the political spectrum will be able to disseminate their crap.

So my advice to the current incumbents is... Grow a pair, and GOVERN Britain.

Any further links posted for extreme groups, Left/right/centre/talitubby/Trumptionite will see the whitewashed wall.

Now by all means continue a debate re. Nationhood, but do NOT post anything that is effectively a recruitment call

and Big Glass Eye, I very sincerely hope , you were not the individual who posted a link to the ABEX group, inviting us all to ignore the contribution made by foreign servicemen in Britains Wars.

 

[wHoSaIdThAt?]

definately not! no siree! no way!

 

[Jip Travolta]

Sorry PtP but I must take issue with this.

...There will especially be no promotion or Far Left or Far right parties.....

Left/Right...surely that depends on your viewpoint?  And if the argument is well presented, why not?  Are we that insecure here?

....pond life on all sides of the political spectrum will be able to disseminate their crap......

Again, viewpoint....should all political discussion be banned?

Any further links posted for extreme groups, Left/right/centre/talitubby/Trumptionite will see the whitewashed wall....

Personally, I view Labour as extremist....

...and Big Glass Eye, I very sincerely hope , you were not the individual who posted a link to the ABEX group....

I doubt that very much...

 

[wHoSaIdThAt?]

Apologies all round!
The intention was not the promotion of any political viewpoints but to point out the biased "news" reporting going on!
The same amount of defence would have been given to any of the westminster groups if the information was wrong!

I hear the words of mulder "the truth is out there"
        you just have to dig somtimes!

 

[Prodigal]

PtP, I feel you are being too protective, for the very best of motives (does you credit, sir).

The old "no discussion of sex,religion and politics" adage (the three things that make the world go round!) shouldn't really apply here. We've had some pretty extreme views openly discussed from Fireman to strange sexual practices, and I think we're all still upright and breathing!!

Don't be afraid of the extremists - bring them on I say, it's a while since I've had anything really juicy to get my talons into....(especially since Mr Kerr appears to have run away).

Their arguments will soon be exposed for the intellectually sterile cr*p they are.

(and I don't think my initial reply to glass eye warranted deleting on extremist grounds!!!)

Please, open the thread again and let's debate.

There's a few things I want to come  back on Woopert on, but I won't waste the energy of he can't read my brillant dissection of some of his nonsense.......

 

[PartTimePongo]

Game on  

My feelings on the matter are simply this. I'm sorry if I appeared to be overprotective, but the thread wasn't closed, it was simply given a quick kick to make sure it stays in the realms of learned debate.
By all means, express views on the subject, debate heatedley, however, I do not wish (and by default Arrse) to be seen to be extending an invite for every Tom, Leon and Adolf, to sail by, spouting crap.

Free speech is a precious treasure, which we take for granted in this country. It is so, because of the sacrifices made by many, of all persuasions, colours and beliefs.

So, all sides, roll your sleeves up and crack on.

I would just ask, that personal insults and aspertions, be left out of it, otherwise the thread gets a NTM to the Naafi bar....  

 

[Prodigal]

Thank you PtP.......

Woopert, actually, I don't really have a problem with any of the stipulations you made about Immigration application. I have a slightly detached view of British nationalism (or English nationalism) ( I joined to defend democracy, not to serve Queen and Country - despite my profound respect fo HM).

What interests me is the emotional stew that now surrounds the Union Jack. The Jack has been hijacked by the Right as a rallying call to arms - the arms of the White Supremacists. In your hearts, would you really feel as hostile to immigrants if they were Australian, Canadian and South African in the main? Would you be so adament that they had to learn British history?

I think a programme to enable them to at least have a working knowledge of English is an excellent idea - however gentlemen, the uncomfortable truth is that the immigrants who are the least likely to know English are the wives of immigrants, who are not allowed to participate in everyday society because their husbands do not encourage it..........

I loathe the use of the Union Jack by the Right. I would like to see it reclaimed by the nation of people who it truly represents - you and me in other words. The question is, how do we do that?

And stop getting so excited about the 'liberal intelligentsia' - they have a right to their views as much as you do. The more extreme suggestions you described (eg open door policy to immigrants) are just that - suggestions, they are not law!!

It is a bad mistake to be provoked into proposing extreme views of the opposite persuasion in order to win an argument with a protagonist, believing at some subconcious level that it would 'even things out' - it's only human nature to do so - and the tendency should be resisted.

So come on,  we probably share more views than we realise on immigration - what I want to know is, how do we use the Union Jack to symbolise what are some of the best and most endearing traits of the English/British? Which are tolerance (yes, tolerance - I would argue that some of the best colonial administration was based on individuals who had that trait), pragmatism and a live and let live attitude.

And don't suggest we start painting it on every street corner - the morons of the Unionist persuasion have discredited that idea.