Rattling The Saber At China?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Not_Whistlin_Dixie, Jul 1, 2004.

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  1. From The Straits Times, July 1, 2004:

    "In an exercise codenamed Operation Summer Pulse 04, [the United States] is expected to arrange for an unprecedented seven aircraft carrier strike groups (CGs) to rendezvous in waters a safe distance away from the Chinese coastline -- but still within striking distance -- after mid-July.


    "Sources in Beijing say China's reading is that Summer Pulse is being mounted with it as the target audience, a suspicion reinforced by reports that Taiwanese forces are slated tojoin in the drill.


    "..a Chinese military source...[said]:

    "'Even now, China can easily taken on two CSGs,'...but conceded that there was no way it could face seven all at the same time.

    "This means that if China has to wage war over Taiwan, it has to be able to land and seize control of the island within the first 30 days.

    "Otherwise, under the [new US Fleet Response Plan], six CSGs may well arrive to join in the battle."

    "US Plans Huge Show Of Force In Pacific," by Ching Cheong


    Murray Rothbard wrote a satirical essay in which he demanded that the United States impose minimum standards of democratic civilization by invading the rest of the planet forthwith. Sometimes I get a notion that he has been taken literally.

    China is one of US fedgov's biggest creditors. A case could be made that it loaned us the money for this "Summer Pulse" exercise.
  2. Interesting. I do believe that if it came down to it, the slit eyes would actually kick the crap out of the good ole US of A. Numerical superiority and an indoctrinated self belief would win over the reliance on technology and mobile McDonalds Battalions. Tom Clancy even wouldnt put a bet on the outcome.

    Does the US understand the word overstretch?
  3. I think I'd have to agree. The Chinese have many more pieces of military kit than the US has precision guided weapons, so after a while their technological edge would disappear. And while US kit is better it's not good enough to cope with the number of troops and vehicles that would hit them.
  4. The Chinese play the long game. They're not ready to storm Taiwan's beaches just yet, or to take on anyone else unless they're forced into it. Give it a decade and it might be a different story. Give it 20 years and the impact of capitalism and the global economy on the population at large might have pulled their fangs to some extent.
  5. OOTS, what're these Chinese troops & vehicles going to do to the US carriers?
  6. Nothing - but I meant to refer to a more general US-China punchup rather than the specific ex mentioned in the article. The Chinese Navy as quite large though and getting bigger so getting close to China could get quite dodgy.
  7. However gents, with 12 CSGs in the vicinty the Chinese would get all their Naval forces blown away.

    12 CSGs! That is an awesome amount of Naval hardware.

    We could help out, send our pidly few ships and bath tubs with planks. If anything the Chinese would piss themselves laughing :roll:
  8. They would do more than pi** themselves if we also sent a couple of hunter-killers............ 8)
  9. "...the U.S. is proceeding to pull back all U.S. troops from the de-militarized zone in Korea, to transfer about a third of all U.S. troops in Korea to Iraq, to base in Korea a dozen F-117 Stealth fighter-bombers and to begin Operation Summer Pulse -- the simultaneous deployment of seven aircraft-carier strike groups to 'demonstrate the ability of the Navy to provide credible combat power across the globe.'

    "...virtually every warship in the Navy that is able to go to sea wil be at sea..mostly in the Pacific.

    "That probably means we are about to apply the Bush Doctrine to some other 'rogue state.'

    "...[T]he (USA) war-gamers are thinking 'blockade.'

    "A Chinese naval blockade could bring Taiwan to its knees with relative ease and minimal international protest....


    "How to enforce? With Russian-made super-sonic sea-skimming anti-ship missiles launched by Russian-made submarines and Russian-made warships.

    "At present, U.S. warships have no effective defense against the Russian-made 'Sunburn' and 'Yakhont,' both of which travel at Mach 2.5 and execute terminal maneuvers specifically designed to overcome U.S. warship defenses.

    "China also has several dozen long-range Russian-made Su-30MKK Flanker naval fighters equipped with the Russian-made X-31 supersonic anti-ship missile.

    "Recall that the Brits very nearly lost the Falklands War because of the Exocet..The Argentines had only five Exocets -- and no long-range aircraft -- but sank to British ships with them...


    "Lets just hope the real neocrazy purpose of Operation Summer Pulse is to get the Burmese junta to release Aung San Suu Kyi."

    "Crisis In Asia," by Gordon Prather
  10. Chinese navy isn't exactly experianced and 2nd hand russian submarines are not really up to much if push comes to shove the yanks can and will kill anything slitty eyed above or below the Sea
    tough luck on there taiwnaese allies thoug :lol: :twisted:
  11. "...according to Taiwanese media, for the first time since 1979, the US sent a 60-man team to take part in the island's annual Hankwang military exercise this year.

    "Similarly, Taiwanese troops, also for the first time, will take part in Operation Summer Pulse 04 in the West Pacific next month."

    "US Rethink Of Taiwan Status Could Spark Chaos" by Ching Cheong

    Looks as if China has got some military maneuvers of its own pending. This is also from The Straits Times, July 5, 2004:

    "China's largest military exercises of the year, to take place this month, are meant to send a 'substantial warning' to Taiwan separatists, state (Beijing) media said yesterday.

    "The annual summer exercises will be held this year on Dongshan Island off the Chinese coast and include air, sea and land forces, China Youth Daily said.

    "Dongshan Island...is less than 280 km west of Taiwant's Penghu Island.

    "The report did not say...how many soldiers would take part in the amphibious mock Taiwan-landing backed by guided missiles, but the New Express Daily said last month that 18,000 troops would be involved.

    "...Beijing has spent heavily in recent years on its navy, building...forces that could help blockade Taiwan.


    "Meanwhile, Taiwan's Defence Ministry has confirmed for the first time tht the island has drawn up plans for a military offensive against China...

    "China Show Of Strength For Taipei"
  12. Interesting article on this topic in this week's Jane's Defence Weekly. Seems that Taiwan is finding it harder and harder to counter China's growing real military strength.

    In other words, China now has more than mere numbers of men and kit: its kit is getting better and better.

    Taiwan's air force now has no better plan in the event of a Chinese attack, it seems, than to send its blokes on suicide missions to engage in relatiatory bombing missions. Taiwan does not have a surface-to-surface missile capability of its own with which to retaliate in a more appropriate way.

    JDW estimates that China will be ready and able to launch a successful war of reconquest against Taiwan by 2006.
  13. 2006? Just in time for the withdrawal of what's left of our overstretched, under-resourced army from Iraq............if you believe Obergruppenfuhrer Hans Short. So......no 24-month gap between deployments, then? :cry:
  14. "China's 'Assassin's Mace' Meets The Taiwanese Scorpion"

    This is a paper by a Dr. John Hill, described as "an independent security analyst based in the UK."

    He notes that the Chinese government is mindful of the persistent qualitative inferiority of its forces to the USA. He says that it is exploring "asymmetric warfare" concepts aimed at furnishing a low-cost means of altering the balance of forces.

    He says that Chinese military literature refers to this equalizer as the "Assassin's Mace." That poetic-sounding phrase is "a label for an idea, rather than for a particular weapon."

    He then outlines specific areas in which they hope to find their asymmetric warfare breakthrough:

    1. Supersonic anti-shipping cruise missiles.

    2. Submarines. He says that China has been spending heavily on new -- not used -- Russian submarines of the "Kilo"-class as well as its own "increasingly capable Song-class."

    3. Anti-satellite lasers. I am no expert in these matters, but I get the impression that US military dominance is heavily tied to satellite reconnaissance.

    4. Computer hacking directed against US financial and commercial systems.


    A venerable Chinese curse, disguised in the subtle Oriental fashion as a benediction, says: "May you live in interesting times."

    Looks to me as if the times may be about to get pretty interesting.
  15. Sorry to disappoint you N_W_D, but if Rear Adm. John D. Stufflebeem, the US Navy's chief of plans and operations is to be believed,

    Though presumably it will mean that the Shrub can wave his big stick more easily and (probably use it) without needing to plan as far in advance.
    Source http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/07/08/navy.exercise.ap/index.html