Rank in UOTC

Discussion in 'OTC and ACF' started by PartTimeGeordie, Jun 4, 2003.

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  1. Is there any acting rank structure between otc cadets in a unit? Ive heard people talk about JUOs on this board as a rank but ive never seen any oher ranks mentioned.
  2. Don't know about other OTCs but London used to have one SUO (Senior Under Officer), kind of an OCdt RSM, and a number of JUOs (Junior Under Officers) who took on Pl Sgt roles.  OCdts had one bar after completing MTQ1, another for MTQ2 and then a third if given a command appointment (e.g. sect comd).
  3. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    You also get the JUO appointment at RMAS. Note it is an appointment and not a rank.

    In times yore Gentlemen Cadets at RMAS used to have an NCO rank structure to administer discipline when the Instructors weren't around. That was changed some time ago and you now have appointments to Junior Under Officer of Cadets who show exceptional talent to act as a sort of Pl Sgt. In the OTC they take on either more senior appointments (JUO Athlone, which is the basic training wing at London), Pl Sgt roles in Athlone, Troop JUOs in the various cap-badge sub-units (again, like a Pl Sgt to help the PSI and Trp Cdr), or to admin appointments like JUO Recruiting, JUO Mess (Ocdt PMC), and so on.

    The ones that take themselves less seriously tend to be the most successful. Everyone recognises they have a job to do, but you always get a couple who take it too far and become little-Hitlers, and they generally get taken round the back and filled in. Personally I always thought that London had far too many knocking around, when it got to "JUO Xmas Ball" it became a joke (or rather in my year SHE became a joke along with the appointment).

    When you join the TA and apply for a commission without having been through an OTC you generally get appointed to the acting rank of OCdt after passing the TCB, while on the same pay as your substanive enlisted rank until you go to RMAS for the TACC. These OCdts do not have JOU appointments in their Regiments and usually wear a white flash on their eppy's.
  4. In recent years ULOTC has restricted JUO appointments to the Pl Sgt roles in A Coy (platoon admin) and to troop JUOs (troop admin). London is apparently top-heavy with 2Lts; hence there is an OIC Enemy, Media Officer and a couple of Recruiting Officers, but no corresponding JUO roles.

    Three-stripe OCdts take the roles of either section commander or troop corporal/bombardier.
  5. If it is true that London really does have an oic enemy, and various subbies doing other spurious jobs, they should tell them to get out of student land and go and geta job within the TA where they can do some good (or a least one where they are not leaching after female officer cadets all day.)
  6. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    Which is definately a good thing. There is an argument that there should be some admin roles like JUO Mess, JUO Recruiting, JUO MTQ2, and JUO Sports to help run the mess, sport, and military training, but we had a ridiculous number for every conceivable issue and some of them I could not see how the appointments either of the individuals or the roles they held could be justified.

    You get a year's grace after TACC in the OTC to give you time to find a Regimental appointment if you don't already have one. The problem is that there is a deficit of Capt's and not 2Lt's at the moment with many officers leaving when they start families, which is usually about 5 or so years after leaving the OTC. It is far easier to pick your appointment if you are a Capt and quite tough to get a slot as a 2Lt at the moment so it takes some time to clear the backlog. I remember one year we had a number of JUOs who had graduated the year previously who had passed TCB (or DAB as it was then) and who were being held off the TACC until the surplus of 2Lts had been posted.
  7. ULOTC having a surplus of subbies is comparatively recent, 3-4 years ago there was barely enough, very much a swings and round abouts thing.

    8 years ago there was a JUO for everything, then the new CO then cut them right back, which has remained unchanged.  There use to be two CQMS type JUOs on top of the CQMS! Then there was JUO adventure training and the list went on.
  8. Then again, I think the Orienteering post was kept open until last year for possibly the longest-serving JUO without a commission.

    Some interesting rumours surronding next year's officer appointments. As already pointed out, K O'K is back, along with a mixed bag of PCs of a wide range of ages.

    I've often thought that the best route for becoming an OTC PC is to do so in your fourth year, after having held a platoon staff position in your third year. So far, only a couple of next year's hopefuls at London fit this. Any opinions?
  9. Are you all for real?

    I cannot believe that 'career consciousness' has hit the OTC.  You're all missing the point.  Enjoy yourselves.  Get back into the bar.

    And yes, as I sit rustling my Telegraph, I am a proud ex-member of this fine organisation.  My, times must be a changing (except for the saddos who seemed to try to make the OTC a 'career').
  10. It's all very well turning up to OTC for the fun stuff, but once you finish the second year, you tend to get left to your own devices (at least in my experience). Call it a career if you like; for me it was only a way of avoiding being left behind.
  11. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    Doggers, you think that this is sad mate, try the UAS! The syllabus has pretty much replaced Elementary Flying Training (1st stage) phase in the RAF, and a couple of poor flights and you get binned from flying as a career before you even start in the RAF proper. There's nothing funnier than seeing a 3rd year cadet Pilot stressing because he has exams AND flying to pass just to get his foot in the door at RAFC Cranwell.

    And yes, when you have been in the TA for 12 years and spend 10 1/2 of them in an OTC, it's probably time to move on.  ;)
  12. In QUOTC they have a pretty good rank structure. Again it is an appointment and not a rank but it does work.

    Head honcho is the Senior Under Officer - SUO

    Then there are three Chief Junior Under Officers - CJUO's

    They are appointed one to B Coy (MTQ1), one to A Coy (MTQ2 and beyond) and finally one to C Coy/HQ for general mess and admin.
    Very much a plt sgt role

    Under this are the Junior Under Officers - JUO's

    They carry out the role of section comdrs as such and give guidence etc.

    A good system that helps the passage of information and control of the Ocdts.
  13. Correct me if I'm wrong but there is no rank apart from private, ie all cadets are paid as privates but may hold the appointment of JUO or SUO  (and previously in some jock units Officer Cadet Sergeant, three chevrons no other differentiation from a Sergeant's slide apart from unit designation)

    The entire topic is a veritable 40min facts lesson to those outwith the confines, I tried explaining it on a couse once...

    "if you have no bars, one bar, two bars or even three bars they're just officer cadets but have managed to gain their MTQ 1/2/3, now if they've got a curly-wurly they're a JUO..... etc etc" after repeating myself I gave up.

    Bunch of complicated arse, thank god my old unit and others have scrapped the OCdt Sgt appointment. (Caused major complications in cook-houses whilst away on assistance tasks amongst other things)

  14. There is a pay difference. MTQ 1 i.e. recruits are on privates pay. You get an extra £5/6 a day for getting MTQ 2, works out about £37 a day.

    Not bad for generally sitting with your thumb up your ass!!!!!!
  15. In addition, the bounty does increase after completing a years specified trg commitments etc (ie gaining MTQ certificates, attending starred weekends / camps, passing BPFA, CFT, APWT, LOAC etc etc) it's probably increased but I can remember it being summat along the lines of:

    1st Year =   £100
    2nd Year =  £130
    3rd Year =   £160 (and subsequent years)

    Not as much as Group A soldiers but better than a kick in the teeth!