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Rangers

#3
countdokku said:
Has the "Para-Rangers" unit been set up yet? It was announced months ago, but I have'nt heard anything more about it.
Bit difficult at the moment. 1 PARA far too busy to retrain into rangers. Currently (but only for a few more days) in Armagh, next stop (2006) Afghanistan with 16 AA, and then, maybe then, a move to Wales.

regards
merkator

PS. Sorry that you haven't heard anything more about it, I must ask the Chief Clerk to put you on the mailing list. :) 8) :)
 
#4
I should think that its been set up - new CO (RM Col) was appointed in command a month or so ago - assume that he's now waiting for the rest of the unit to join him!
 
#5
Are u sure? Not getting confused with the SRR at Hereford? Remember SRR and JSFSG are 2 different beasts.

Sean Rayment said:
The new unit will be commanded by a Parachute Regiment lieutenant colonel and will be based at St Athlan [sic] Barracks, in South Wales, close to the SAS headquarters in Hereford. The force will be composed of around 450 soldiers from the 1st Battalion of the Parachute Regiment and 200 members from the Royal Marines and the RAF Regiment.
...whereas...

MoD said:
The new UK Special Reconnaissance Regiment, which became operational in April 2005, held its inaugural parade on Friday 2nd September 2005 at an undisclosed location.

At the parade, Secretary of State for Defence, John Reid, and Chief of the General Staff General Sir Mike Jackson took the salute from the Commanding Officer.
 
#6
The parade for the new Recce Reg had crabs & matelots as well.

Also, what will the correct title of the new "Ranger" style unit? We have already had Regiments called Rangers - Rangers (KRRC), Royal Irish Rangers and the Connaught Rangers. Why not leave those units names alone? And lets face it - the US Army Rangers are not all that - most of our Inf Bn's could do the job and better!
 
#7
I doubt extremely if the word ranger has been banded about anywhere than the dailys

We are NOT forming a Ranger btn, just reroling a Para Bn to do tasks that the US Rangers do, namely provide INF support to SF. Not sure what I mean. then watch Black Hawk Down.

I doubt if there will be much retraining as such, just re-direction, oh and spending your life on standby
 
#8
wellyhead said:
I doubt extremely if the word ranger has been banded about anywhere than the dailys
On the contrary, that is precisely the word being used in 'official' circles - by none other than Defence Secretary and the Chief of the Defence Staff.... As yet, there is still no officially sanctionned name and 'ranger' is the best on offer.

See the CGS's actual words:-
CGS said:
The Secretary of State will announce today the emerging and clear operational requirement to establish a battalion dedicated to direct support to the Special Forces. This new capability will make a very significant improvement to the Special Forces' ability to prosecute global counter terrorism whilst meeting the variety of other high priority tasks that draw on their resources. ECAB considered that the nature of this capability demanded a unit of particular skill and experience and therefore concluded that the most appropriate way to meet this new task would be to allocate the fourth reduction to the 1st Battalion The Parachute Regiment removing it from the line Infantry and using its highly trained manpower and structure as the core of this new 'ranger' battalion. ECAB were also clear that for sound operational reasons this Battalion would remain firmly as part of the Parachute Regiment. We need to do a little more work to fully define the role and construct of this 'Ranger' type battalion, which we envisage being about 500 in strength, and which will take its place alongside the other FAS enhancements to specialist elements of the Army.
See here:- http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/org_role_loc/the_future_infantry.htm

And buff-Hoons words:-
Defence Select Committee said:
Mr Hoon: About 550 will be used to ensure that the remaining infantry battalions are brought up to full strength. So about 550 will go directly back into the infantry. We will then look carefully at the number of posts that are required for the—so far we have called it a Ranger battalion—support battalion for special forces ... blah blah and more blah ...
See here:- http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmdfence/45/5011205.htm

Then there was this wee exchange:-
Defence Select Committee said:
Q668
Mr Viggers: Would you share with us your latest thinking about the unit to support Special Forces? Is it to be called "Rangers"? Where will they be based? Has it been carved out of the Parachute Regiment? Can you explain your current thinking, please, on this point?

General Sir Mike Jackson: Yes. Firstly, the name. "Rangers" should be very much in inverted commas.

Mr Hoon: I did say "so-called" earlier on.

General Sir Mike Jackson: It is an American term which I do not think would import that well. It is a question of nomenclature. It is a very important additional capability, in my view. We have had for some while some, not ad hoc but certainly less than optimised arrangements, to produce semi-conventional support and we need to get it on to a proper footing. The way it will be done is by taking 1 PARA (1st Battalion The Parachute Regiment) out of the infantry order of battle thereby coming to the 36 battalions, we then have a nucleus of experienced, well-trained soldiers. Add to that some elements from, particularly I suspect, the Royal Marines and the Royal Air Force, we are going to get something which is, really, I think, a very powerful addition to the order of battle.
See here:- http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200405/cmselect/cmdfence/45/5011206.htm

So there you have it! From the Prince and Buffoon themselves; "It is an American term which I do not think would import that well" - but what the fekk, we'll use it anyway...

The JSFSG has been banded around and appeared in the Telegraph, but that's it.

regards
merkator
 
#9
merkator said:
General Sir Mike Jackson: It is an American term which I do not think would import that well. It is a question of nomenclature.
This term "Ranger" is rather un British in this contect. We have a much better word for this type of unit.........

When the US Army set up theiur raiding units they picked the term "Rangers" from Irregular British light troops formed on the Frontiers. But they only did this because he was copying a British Army unit which had no parallel in US military history. These were the Army Commandos.

This is crazy. We are borrowing a US term to describe a unit which already has a British name and an honourable history.

So why not stick to good old British terminology and rename 1 Para as No 1 Army Commando? I reckon they would look good in green berets ;)
 
#10
Commando was a term you britishers took from the boers(if Im not mistaken) but the role of the commando is not that far from the original Rangers, which was a British cocept that we Septics ran off with.Calling them "Rangers" may be more british than calling them "Commandos".
 
#11
Pteranadon said:
merkator said:
General Sir Mike Jackson: It is an American term which I do not think would import that well. It is a question of nomenclature.
This term "Ranger" is rather un British in this contect. We have a much better word for this type of unit.........

When the US Army set up theiur raiding units they picked the term "Rangers" from Irregular British light troops formed on the Frontiers. But they only did this because he was copying a British Army unit which had no parallel in US military history. These were the Army Commandos.

This is crazy. We are borrowing a US term to describe a unit which already has a British name and an honourable history.

So why not stick to good old British terminology and rename 1 Para as No 1 Army Commando? I reckon they would look good in green berets ;)
RESPONSE:

Couldn't agree more - particularly because the first para unit was formed from No 1 Cdo during WW2. All this piddling around with names is nothing but "kipple" - BS aiming to confuse and confound.
 
#12
I think you will find it was No.2 Commando who provided the first men. The unit name then changed to 11 SAS, which in turn changed to The Parachute Regiment.

I would not like to see 1 Para change their name (but as its my old Battalion I would say that) however, with the tri-service nature of the unit may be 1 SFSG (Para) as an option. Whether the RM and RAF bods have sub unit ID e.g 41 SFSG (Royal Marines Commando) or 2 SFSG (2 Sqn)............all a bit long winded,...........stick with 1 Para, soddit
 
#13
expat007 said:
Commando was a term you britishers took from the boers(if Im not mistaken) but the role of the commando is not that far from the original Rangers, which was a British cocept that we Septics ran off with.Calling them "Rangers" may be more british than calling them "Commandos".
Certainly Rogers' Rangers were a British irregular unit operating against the French in North America during the Seven Years' war.

It was Winston Churchill who put the term 'commando' into British military parlance. His experiences in the South African war had impressed him with the mobility, flexibility and individual skills of the Boers and he wanted new units formed with similar qualities. The Boer units were called 'Kommandos', a word meaning, I believe, simply a 'command'. Inevitably, the precise meaning of the unfamiliar term was loosened and it came to be used of individual soldiers and not just of their unit.

The term 'commando' is today closely associated with the Royal Marines, but it is probably the best name available for the new unit as, IMHO, 'ranger' is now even more closely associated with the US Army.
 
#16
Wellyhead - I did watch Blackhawk Down and read the book - headless chickens the lot of 'em! 8)

As for the new Recce Reg being tri service - I know but why would the support reg need to be as it seems to be like the Recce Reg's very own Defence Platoon?
 
#17
Vasco said:
Certainly Rogers' Rangers were a British irregular unit operating against the French in North America during the Seven Years' war.
Bit of historical trivia on Rogers, he remained loyal to the king, was promoted to Lt Col and raised a Bn of loyalist Rangers(Ive read his brother was OC of a second bn-with Robert in overall command. Would a Lt Col have been of sufficient rank to command a regiment?) and led them against his more revolutionary minded neighbors. He returned to England following the war and died (destitute) around 1800.

To add insult to injury, his ex wife apparently left him fora dubious Merchant ship's captain, and had the gall to outlive him by 12 years.
 
#18
I would envisage SFSG being the 'garrison' and the Battalion simply rolling thru every couple of years. Mind you, the army is a bit funny about putting SF in the old address title, so perhaps not. But then again - they have 18 SF Sig Regt. Perhaps we'll be like the Yanks - everybody seems to be bloody SF.
 
#19
I stand corrected re 1 Cdo - quite right, it was 2 Cdo who formed up as the first British airborne unit.

Another "commando" precedent might be the present Australian Army commando units (1 regular; 1 reserve) which seem to perform a pretty similar role to that being proposed for 1 Para; 3 RAR is, I believe, the designated para unit of the Australian Army.

On a literary note - a good read is Alan Judd's "A Breed of Heroes" (1981): the travails of the men of "No 1 Army Assault Commando (Airborne)" in NI at the height of the "Troubles". For "Lord of the Rings" fans (can't stand it myself) - "Strider" is a "Ranger": "tabbed" or "scrolled", I wonder?!
 
#20
I gather it will be called the Joint Special Forces Support Group and the MOD wants it operational by 2008. It is intended to consist of approximately 650 men, 450 from 1 PARA and 200 from the Royal Marines and the RAF Regiment (from the para-trained II Sqaudron presumably). Check out this article for the info:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...sas17.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/04/17/ixhome.html

Don't know how preparations for its formation are progressing, slow at the moment I imagine!
 

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