Ranger Brigade(s)

FEASG

LE
Well the long and short of it is.....

Starting with the Hull Committee the idea was to move the Infantry into three Bn large regiments, all with the same Cap Badge. Sort of like Cardwell with one being in BAOR, one overseas or high readiness, one for MHD. The Cap Badge reaction was apoplectic...so they went with the points of the compass mini-amalgamations and formed what was left in Brigade Groups of three to four, one Bn, regiments. The idea was you enlisted/passed out into the Group and you were moved around from there. Some Groups bit the bullet and went Large (Queen's, Green Jackets, etc.) The next round in the late-60's saw the Bde Gps binned for Divisions with the same intentions just bigger. This is when some more Regts went Large (Fusiliers, Light Infantry, etc) as a sop everyone in each Division were allowed to have their Cap Badge back. (Interesting point, the RGJ & LI, when initially formed into The Light Division already started discussing amalgamating into a Super-Regiment!)
So its been piecemeal amalgamations and compromises since the late-50's to ward off the demon Corps of Infantry. At this point everyone needs to go the way of the RIFLES/SCOTS.....MHO.
I'm hearing whispers that the current Kings/ Queen's Divisions, are about to be merged into something called the Sovereigns Division. However there are lots of strange and contradicting rumours flying around as they play Fantasy Army Power Point. Even the under recruited Guards talking of forming incremental companies of the Welsh and Irish Guards, so that they can make a public duties Bn and leave that to the red arses. more interesting times ahead. Driven by cost, shaped by patronage as normal though.
 
I'm hearing whispers that the current Kings/ Queen's Divisions, are about to be merged into something called the Sovereigns Division. However there are lots of strange and contradicting rumours flying around as they play Fantasy Army Power Point. Even the under recruited Guards talking of forming incremental companies of the Welsh and Irish Guards, so that they can make a public duties Bn and leave that to the red arses. more interesting times ahead. Driven by cost, shaped by patronage as normal though.
A ceremonial battalion of Guards with a company each of the 5 regiments would make sense: new recruits and blokes in their final year, maybe?
 
A ceremonial battalion of Guards with a company each of the 5 regiments would make sense: new recruits and blokes in their final year, maybe?

It would make sense if each of the Guards capbadges had 800-odd blokes but the Scots and Welsh Guards have only about 350 each, the Guards could muster only 1 ceremonial battalion and 1 operational battalion between them!
 

skymacuk

Old-Salt
I think too many are going down the rabbit hole of selection. Thinking this is a fresh out the box train set and will have some hashed together arduous course so they can be a pseudo SF unit. It isn’t.

This isn’t the case and as I said in my post (#1,615) the “selection” is essentially the same as the previous Spec Inf Assessment Cadre. Having sat in on 4 RIFLES presentations the important point is the assessment cadre is exactly that. An assessment rather than a selection course. The majority of blokes who load onto it, pass it. This is because, as I said in post #1,615, the lads who get loaded on tend to be the right sort of bloke. It’s very much the same today under this new banner. The cadre is much more about giving them a snapshot of the individuals they are going to work with and see how they can slot into the 12 man teams. It isn’t all phys and hills. That’s why they have serials that simulate working with partner organisations. It’s why they have command tasks with fictitious language barriers. The cadre is designed to check and confirm maturity, patience and empathy.
After my post last night I got in touch with my mate in 4 RIFLEs who confirmed the cadre is now a 3 stage process. 1- A paper sift of applications for JPA competencies, 1 and 2 RO report and OC interviews. 2 - The Assessment cadre (2 phases) . 3- A training course. They have to pass all 3 before being allocated to a team.
Don’t get too hung up on this Ranger Regt bullshít. The same lads have been been training, advising and mentoring alongside indigenous armies as Spec Inf. They job spec isn’t new. The only added billy bonus is the increased capability to fight alongside their mentees. Not unlike how the lads who worked with the ANA did.
Obviously I’m talking from a RIFLES perspective but what i saw is the role tends to attract soldiers and officers of a particular temperament and character. Yes the assessment cadre has a few more bells and whistles on it now and yes there has been postings in and out of the teams but ultimately it’s the same structure with the same lads. They won’t have any diffs being operational next year. Even if Covid has darted some training opportunities like the 30 days in Belize they had planned. 4 RIFLES alone, as recently as 2019 had teams delivering a Train The Trainer package to Ugandans. They also had boys running an infantry skills training package to the Somali National Army at a UK-funded training facility out there. They know what they are doing and it’s a stress tested unit. It works well.
The idea training and then fighting alongside local nationals isn’t new at all. It’s been going on for generations and was probably the remit of UKSF. This way they have a dedicated team of experienced lads, mostly NCOs, who are comfortable in their own skin and “trained to train”. Previously the overall aim was lost when non-specialised inf STTTs were tasked with this type of role. The CoC was probably committed to the task but lots of lads probably grumbled at having to train “a bunch of chogies”. This way, they are professionalising the way they mentor with the right lads doing the job. Don’t get hung up on this “Ranger” title. The lads doing the job have already been doing it and their assessment cadre works well.



very informative.

I'm just curious as to what they are looking for in regards to "JPA competencies"
At the moment Spec Inf is open to applications from anyone across the military ( including reserves) we are led to believe that the new organisation will be the same.
Will it be a case of if you haven't completed certain desireble courses i.e SCBC/PSBC then you won't get through the paper sift ?
 
Perhaps it's time to do away with the nationalist regiments, and just have a ubiquitous/ united Guards infantry battalion?

Nothing would make me happier than to live in the sort of world where each of the Guards capbadges had 2 or even 3 full-strength battalions. But we have to face reality, that is impossible in the present circumstances, and the knots that the Army ties itself into to try and maintain the fiction that there are 5 Guards battalions is harming not only the Army but Defence and hence the entire country. One new regiment, called simply The Guards, with two or three battalions, is the only practical way forwards. Assuming we don't take the next step and amalgamate absolutely everyone into the Royal Infantry.

Just to get back on topic, it's strange that one of the Guards battalions wasn't repurposed as Spec Inf, after all, they're small enough.
 
very informative.

I'm just curious as to what they are looking for in regards to "JPA competencies"
At the moment Spec Inf is open to applications from anyone across the military ( including reserves) we are led to believe that the new organisation will be the same.
Will it be a case of if you haven't completed certain desireble courses i.e SCBC/PSBC then you won't get through the paper sift ?

Be warned of conflating an individual Unit's processes with the Army's process.
 
Have a listen direct to Carter

He makes a couple of comparisons that will put a few noses out of joint at the 2 min mark




Para's and Marines are high end conventional forces - The Rangers will be special forces.
 
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D

Deleted 166591

Guest
very informative.

I'm just curious as to what they are looking for in regards to "JPA competencies"
At the moment Spec Inf is open to applications from anyone across the military ( including reserves) we are led to believe that the new organisation will be the same.
Will it be a case of if you haven't completed certain desireble courses i.e SCBC/PSBC then you won't get through the paper sift ?

Yes mate. I think it’s a case of identifying quals aside from just Brecon.
I know when I looked at it they wanted lads who had their All Arms SAA Instructor qual and the All Arms Live firing tactical trg course. Quite a few have been screws up at ITC.

But yeah, speaking of reservists apparently the first reserve passed just before the re-brand and deployed to Morocco. He was a fluent Arabic speaker. So I guess the paper sift it to capture those sort of skill sets. They then need to have an interview and various write ups from their CoC prior to being progressed onto the cadre.
 
I think too many are going down the rabbit hole of selection. Thinking this is a fresh out the box train set and will have some hashed together arduous course so they can be a pseudo SF unit. It isn’t.

This isn’t the case and as I said in my post (#1,615) the “selection” is essentially the same as the previous Spec Inf Assessment Cadre. Having sat in on 4 RIFLES presentations the important point is the assessment cadre is exactly that. An assessment rather than a selection course. The majority of blokes who load onto it, pass it. This is because, as I said in post #1,615, the lads who get loaded on tend to be the right sort of bloke. It’s very much the same today under this new banner. The cadre is much more about giving them a snapshot of the individuals they are going to work with and see how they can slot into the 12 man teams. It isn’t all phys and hills. That’s why they have serials that simulate working with partner organisations. It’s why they have command tasks with fictitious language barriers. The cadre is designed to check and confirm maturity, patience and empathy.
After my post last night I got in touch with my mate in 4 RIFLEs who confirmed the cadre is now a 3 stage process. 1- A paper sift of applications for JPA competencies, 1 and 2 RO report and OC interviews. 2 - The Assessment cadre (2 phases) . 3- A training course. They have to pass all 3 before being allocated to a team.
Don’t get too hung up on this Ranger Regt bullshít. The same lads have been been training, advising and mentoring alongside indigenous armies as Spec Inf. They job spec isn’t new. The only added billy bonus is the increased capability to fight alongside their mentees. Not unlike how the lads who worked with the ANA did.
Obviously I’m talking from a RIFLES perspective but what i saw is the role tends to attract soldiers and officers of a particular temperament and character. Yes the assessment cadre has a few more bells and whistles on it now and yes there has been postings in and out of the teams but ultimately it’s the same structure with the same lads. They won’t have any diffs being operational next year. Even if Covid has darted some training opportunities like the 30 days in Belize they had planned. 4 RIFLES alone, as recently as 2019 had teams delivering a Train The Trainer package to Ugandans. They also had boys running an infantry skills training package to the Somali National Army at a UK-funded training facility out there. They know what they are doing and it’s a stress tested unit. It works well.
The idea training and then fighting alongside local nationals isn’t new at all. It’s been going on for generations and was probably the remit of UKSF. This way they have a dedicated team of experienced lads, mostly NCOs, who are comfortable in their own skin and “trained to train”. Previously the overall aim was lost when non-specialised inf STTTs were tasked with this type of role. The CoC was probably committed to the task but lots of lads probably grumbled at having to train “a bunch of chogies”. This way, they are professionalising the way they mentor with the right lads doing the job. Don’t get hung up on this “Ranger” title. The lads doing the job have already been doing it and their assessment cadre works well.

Sounds very positive already. Why the need for a name change and weird SOF hype I wonder?
 
Sounds very positive already. Why the need for a name change and weird SOF hype I wonder?

Because there are changes elsewhere that are driving the handoff of previous "SF" tasking.

CGS said:
he said the SAS and SBS would be put on a “different trajectory” in a major overhaul of the armed forces to be announced on Monday.

The paper said that it could mean Special Forces soldiers operating alongside MI6 to mount surveillance operations against Russian intelligence and military units.

Gen Carleton-Smith said some of their traditional roles would now be taken over by a new Ranger Regiment announced on Friday ahead of the publication of the Defence Command Paper.

 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
Sounds very positive already. Why the need for a name change and weird SOF hype I wonder?
All depends what they are trying to hide behind this smoke screen.
 
Soften the blow or head off opposition?

Why not just leave them as 4 under strength battalions, keeping the names and doing what they already do and taking on any training task that are currently done by SF.

What is gained from calling them Rangers and Sp Ops Bde, apparently with no upgrade in training or selection?

The indication from @NuggetBks is that they already have a “best of the infantry fighting coys” type of mentality/posting ethos, which is promising.
 
I suspect there are a few reasons, though what they are exactly is probably anyone's guess. One is likely to be a move to make it closer to what the USA recognises.
 

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