Ranger Brigade(s)

If they are looking to Para train any elements of the Ranger Brigade, here is an idea for a nifty set of Para Wings which will go nicely with the cap badge.

H5403-L267431517.jpg
 
For the benefit of the lay congregation: isn't 300 a little small for a bn? I thought a battalion establishment was something like 800...
 
I'm just f'kin amazed that they're gonna have not one, but 2 x Rifle Battalions on the island of Cyprus!

I thought we (RGJ) were on a Lifetime Ban from all things remotely Hellenic in nature. We deserve to be to be fair.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
Has any other nation actually asked for help from a Ranger Bn (as opposed to a training mission a la BMATT). No.
And if we're off to war leading some ally's failing troops we're presumably going to need to deploy some extra firepower, so that our ranger command cadre can actually fight (which is what it's supposed to do). Where is that firepower - no idea, but not in the Ranger Bde.
So the proposed light and compelling deployments is going to need some fires support. Plus casevac, plus AH, plus air. None of which are in Ranger Bde. Which rather undermines the concept.

Actually, WTF is the point of having a Ranger Bde HQ (other than to give a 1* salary to some SF wannabe / reject. Or do we anticipate deploying all 4 Ranger Bns to the same place?

On that point, can someone explain the purpose of 6 Div HQ. Or indeed 1 and 3 Div as it seems we deploy Brigade Combat Teams (or somehing). And why do we need a fireld army HQ too?

For line Inf Bns the Rangers are either somewhere to send the awkward/incompetent or a potential drain of a Bn's finest and best. Plus of course the Rangers will get more sunshine and challenging slots, leaving line Bns with a recruiting challenge except as a pathway to the rangers.

Back in the real world, where the genius of Carter has enabled the creation of armoured infantry brigades without (much) armour or any armoured infantry, just some mech(-) types in a BTR-80 knock off that is more mine tolerant, modular and armed with the truly awesome pintle mounted L37 GPMG that made FV432 such a force to be reckoned with.

Here's the reality.
1. The Army now is about the same strength as 1 Br Corps back in the day. (For younger readers, 1 Br Corps comprised 4 divisions - three armoured, one infantry - each with three Bdes each of 3 or 4 battle groups.). These all had full complements of artillery, sapper, all sorts of other stuff and nukes. The whole caboodle was all ready to go at 6 hours notice.
2. With the same manpower we now field at best the equivalent of one armoured brigade, plus any number of foot borne infantry (some of which are training to fight with some other non-NATO ally).
3. In the absence of any combat power it we run up against Russian or Chinese hordes our only option would to be the tripwire for a nuclear exchange.
4. As we seem to have given up tac nukes, that means fire mission trident.

I don't know about you, but I really don't think Kiev, Warsaw, Berlin or Taiwan is worth lobbing buckets of instant sunshine about, particularly as that may well result in some incoming (which would make Covid look like the non-lethal event it is.)

Vlad and Xi have worked it out.
 
I’d only note that Brig Gus Fair is no-ones description of a “wannabe”.

As to the rest, it’s a bit Friday night-ish to my mind.
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
I’d only note that Brig Gus Fair is no-ones description of a “wannabe”.

As to the rest, it’s a bit Friday night-ish to my mind.
Oh I don't know! I don't know the fair Brigadier but surely we wants to be a Major General, hence wannabe :)
 

itchy300

Old-Salt
Has any other nation actually asked for help from a Ranger Bn (as opposed to a training mission a la BMATT). No.
And if we're off to war leading some ally's failing troops we're presumably going to need to deploy some extra firepower, so that our ranger command cadre can actually fight (which is what it's supposed to do). Where is that firepower - no idea, but not in the Ranger Bde.
So the proposed light and compelling deployments is going to need some fires support. Plus casevac, plus AH, plus air. None of which are in Ranger Bde. Which rather undermines the concept.

Actually, WTF is the point of having a Ranger Bde HQ (other than to give a 1* salary to some SF wannabe / reject. Or do we anticipate deploying all 4 Ranger Bns to the same place?

On that point, can someone explain the purpose of 6 Div HQ. Or indeed 1 and 3 Div as it seems we deploy Brigade Combat Teams (or somehing). And why do we need a fireld army HQ too?

For line Inf Bns the Rangers are either somewhere to send the awkward/incompetent or a potential drain of a Bn's finest and best. Plus of course the Rangers will get more sunshine and challenging slots, leaving line Bns with a recruiting challenge except as a pathway to the rangers.

Back in the real world, where the genius of Carter has enabled the creation of armoured infantry brigades without (much) armour or any armoured infantry, just some mech(-) types in a BTR-80 knock off that is more mine tolerant, modular and armed with the truly awesome pintle mounted L37 GPMG that made FV432 such a force to be reckoned with.

Here's the reality.
1. The Army now is about the same strength as 1 Br Corps back in the day. (For younger readers, 1 Br Corps comprised 4 divisions - three armoured, one infantry - each with three Bdes each of 3 or 4 battle groups.). These all had full complements of artillery, sapper, all sorts of other stuff and nukes. The whole caboodle was all ready to go at 6 hours notice.
2. With the same manpower we now field at best the equivalent of one armoured brigade, plus any number of foot borne infantry (some of which are training to fight with some other non-NATO ally).
3. In the absence of any combat power it we run up against Russian or Chinese hordes our only option would to be the tripwire for a nuclear exchange.
4. As we seem to have given up tac nukes, that means fire mission trident.

I don't know about you, but I really don't think Kiev, Warsaw, Berlin or Taiwan is worth lobbing buckets of instant sunshine about, particularly as that may well result in some incoming (which would make Covid look like the non-lethal event it is.)

Vlad and Xi have worked it out.
I mean when you say it like that it sounds like a bad idea

How the mighty have fallen...

 

Wagner-Group

Old-Salt
For line Inf Bns the Rangers are either somewhere to send the awkward/incompetent or a potential drain of a Bn's finest and best. Plus of course the Rangers will get more sunshine and challenging slots, leaving line Bns with a recruiting challenge except as a pathway to the rangers.

The days of Capbadge Loyalty is far gone, Most Young blokes these days just want to go the "ally" Regiment, and fulfil their Call of Duty Fantasy. I mean, 40% of 1 Royal Irish is made up of blokes from The Republic.
 
Has any other nation actually asked for help from a Ranger Bn (as opposed to a training mission a la BMATT). No.
And if we're off to war leading some ally's failing troops we're presumably going to need to deploy some extra firepower, so that our ranger command cadre can actually fight (which is what it's supposed to do). Where is that firepower - no idea, but not in the Ranger Bde.
So the proposed light and compelling deployments is going to need some fires support. Plus casevac, plus AH, plus air. None of which are in Ranger Bde. Which rather undermines the concept.

Picture it, in some Third World country. The palace of the dictator or the camp of the rebel leader, doesn't matter which, whoever controls the country when the dust settles is going to be in a generous mood when it comes to dishing out the mining rights. National interests are national interests and all of the Western powers want the biggest slice of this pie, the whole pie if they can.

The Americans send their Green Berets with an offer that includes unlimited air strikes, drone strikes, TLAMs and a bottomless bag of the worlds favourite currency. We send our Rangers with... What exactly? Teach them foot drill like the Guards?

Back in the real world, where the genius of Carter has enabled the creation of armoured infantry brigades without (much) armour or any armoured infantry, just some mech(-) types in a BTR-80 knock off that is more mine tolerant, modular and armed with the truly awesome pintle mounted L37 GPMG that made FV432 such a force to be reckoned with.

I think there's a case to be made that Carter was the most incompetent general of the last hundred years. Equipment, recruitment and retention, two wars against Third World armies, everything he touched he turned to (checks section of site) dust. No doubt a cushy and lucrative retirement awaits him, the Eton mafia look after their own.
 

Alamo

LE
Said if before, say it again: having seen the way risk works out in PJHQ I’ll wage 30p they will never go into contact with an indigenous force.
 
Last edited:

itchy300

Old-Salt
The days of Capbadge Loyalty is far gone, Most Young blokes these days just want to go the "ally" Regiment, and fulfil their Call of Duty Fantasy. I mean, 40% of 1 Royal Irish is made up of blokes from The Republic.

Are you surprised? I bet if you did a poll of school leavers they couldn't name more than a handful of regiments.

Mercians, PWRR, RRF, Anglians......who?

How can they expect a community to form any loyalty to its local regiment when it changes its name and identity every 10 minutes. If it takes the navy three years to build a ship and three centuries to build a tradition then surely it must be the same for a regiment.

I don't think lads want to go to ally regiments, I think they want to deploy and have a scrap in body armour and shorts like the 'good old days' of Afghan, not get stuck on some shit exercise in the winging PR obsessed, risk averse woke mess the army has become.
 
Picture it, in some Third World country. The palace of the dictator or the camp of the rebel leader, doesn't matter which, whoever controls the country when the dust settles is going to be in a generous mood when it comes to dishing out the mining rights. National interests are national interests and all of the Western powers want the biggest slice of this pie, the whole pie if they can.

The Americans send their Green Berets with an offer that includes unlimited air strikes, drone strikes, TLAMs and a bottomless bag of the worlds favourite currency. We send our Rangers with... What exactly? Teach them foot drill like the Guards?



I think there's a case to be made that Carter was the most incompetent general of the last hundred years. Equipment, recruitment and retention, two wars against Third World armies, everything he touched he turned to (checks section of site) dust. No doubt a cushy and lucrative retirement awaits him, the Eton mafia look after their own.
Apart from the fact Niger and elsewhere demonstrate that the US SF don’t operate like that.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Has any other nation actually asked for help from a Ranger Bn (as opposed to a training mission a la BMATT). No.
And if we're off to war leading some ally's failing troops we're presumably going to need to deploy some extra firepower, so that our ranger command cadre can actually fight (which is what it's supposed to do). Where is that firepower - no idea, but not in the Ranger Bde.
So the proposed light and compelling deployments is going to need some fires support. Plus casevac, plus AH, plus air. None of which are in Ranger Bde. Which rather undermines the concept.

Actually, WTF is the point of having a Ranger Bde HQ (other than to give a 1* salary to some SF wannabe / reject. Or do we anticipate deploying all 4 Ranger Bns to the same place?

On that point, can someone explain the purpose of 6 Div HQ. Or indeed 1 and 3 Div as it seems we deploy Brigade Combat Teams (or somehing). And why do we need a fireld army HQ too?

For line Inf Bns the Rangers are either somewhere to send the awkward/incompetent or a potential drain of a Bn's finest and best. Plus of course the Rangers will get more sunshine and challenging slots, leaving line Bns with a recruiting challenge except as a pathway to the rangers.

Back in the real world, where the genius of Carter has enabled the creation of armoured infantry brigades without (much) armour or any armoured infantry, just some mech(-) types in a BTR-80 knock off that is more mine tolerant, modular and armed with the truly awesome pintle mounted L37 GPMG that made FV432 such a force to be reckoned with.

Here's the reality.
1. The Army now is about the same strength as 1 Br Corps back in the day. (For younger readers, 1 Br Corps comprised 4 divisions - three armoured, one infantry - each with three Bdes each of 3 or 4 battle groups.). These all had full complements of artillery, sapper, all sorts of other stuff and nukes. The whole caboodle was all ready to go at 6 hours notice.
2. With the same manpower we now field at best the equivalent of one armoured brigade, plus any number of foot borne infantry (some of which are training to fight with some other non-NATO ally).
3. In the absence of any combat power it we run up against Russian or Chinese hordes our only option would to be the tripwire for a nuclear exchange.
4. As we seem to have given up tac nukes, that means fire mission trident.

I don't know about you, but I really don't think Kiev, Warsaw, Berlin or Taiwan is worth lobbing buckets of instant sunshine about, particularly as that may well result in some incoming (which would make Covid look like the non-lethal event it is.)

Vlad and Xi have worked it out.
Hush. The very fact that these Uber-warriors are going to be created by simply re-badging some regular battalions...

Never mind. I'm just being silly, surely.
 

Cynical

LE
Book Reviewer
I think they want to deploy and have a scrap in body armour and shorts like the 'good old days' of Afghan
OF course, these prospective recruits be definition know sod all about what makes "ally" or there realities of combat and soldiering. Not least because they have been fed a diet of MOD PR and recruiting films from Crapita..

I remain stunned that the defence of the realm is now reduced to a few tanks and our global influence to the hypothesis that Rangers make sense.
 

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