RAMC Warrant Officers- Why don't they get Commissioned?

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by Ventress, Aug 11, 2003.

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  1. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    RAMC Warrant Officers- Why don't they get Commissioned in the RAMC?

    Why do they struggle against WO from the AGC, RLC and REME- even Infantry do better.

    Are they badly prepared?

    Do they expect it to fall into their laps with no study?

    Are they just crap, like an old OC CEG MCM Div said to WO's on their WOMQC course?

    Does the Corps want them?
  2. Dont believe the general standard of AMS WO is crap. However I do feel that they do expect to be commisioned as a right without study this is never going to happen. Those commisioning into the corps are always going to have a head start as they get off their backsides and learn as much about the AMS as they can.
    The AMS does let us down by not identyfying potential and nurturing it from say the rank of Sgt in order to prepare them for commision. Spoke to SO1 MCM Div recently about running commisioning workshops for those SNCO's highlighted for potential LE commision, seemed very keen not heard any thing since though.
  3. Pompey I agree with the workshops idea but disagree with the fact that Warrants expect a commission. I honestly feel that it is unfair that an RAMC Warrant should have to compete against all and sundry for an LE commission into his own Corps.

    Lets just say that 10 LE slots per year were put aside for RAMC and then a Warrant would only be judged against his own status group. That I think would work and still select x amount from the rest of the army.
  4. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Unfortunately New Q- I am with Pompey1, (much as it agrieves me)I ve have seen numerous RAMC WO's gutted when they fail the filter board, and then those who fail the interview- they really expect to be commissioned! Unfortunatley they are compeating against Big Army WOs who have been coached, put through mock interview boards, who have rung a 100 AMS units for advice, read all the 'doctrine' and have generally done their homework. Your dream of getting 10 LE slots for the RAMC is more likley than you getting your ammunition account right! The MSO is the new dream ticket for the AMS- Sandhurst punters who can't get in the RE or RSigs will be the future of our Corps.
  5. We have many problems in the AMS, and the continued in-fighting between all of the various sections is one of the worst.

    LEs put down DEs, DEs put down LEs. Everyone puts down Doctors, and CMTs feel ignored.

    It is very sad that so few LEs are commissioned from within the Corps, as to my mind one of the great strengths of the LE officer is the wealth of experience that he/she can bring to the job. Commissioning from outside the Corps can bring in fresh ideas and knowledge, but cannot replace the corporate knowledge of an AMS LE Officer.

    It doesn't help, though, to make snide remarks about direct entry MSOs. There have been poor MSOs coming out of Sandhurst, just as there have been poor LE officers commissioned from the RAMC WOs. But to label all DE MSOs as RE and R Sigs rejects is just rubbish. SOme ofthe young MSOs coming through are of excellent quality, and I know a number of DE MSOs who turned down commissions in the Infantry and Royal Artillery to name just a couple.

    Believe it or not, we're all in the same AMS and we all want to see it succeed.
  6. RCR I agree with you, it does not help that we have in house fighting between the LE and DE commisions, surely at the end of the day they are not competing against each other for promotion. They are on different types of commision path. The only contest they may have is for the vacant SO3 posts, Adjt's posts and such like. There have been some really awful MSO's from Sandhurst and some of those LE commissions it still makes me cringe wondering how some of those even got past the filter board.

    I still feel though that the AMS let us wishing to take LE commision down. The amount of times friends from other Corps and Service mock me because the AMS has not picked up on the fact that I wish to take an LE commision and are grooming me for that is countless. These people have been highlighted in their particular arms and service and are being groomed towards their end goal. All I get told is make sure that it is noted on your AR!!!

    Even those personnel outside the AMS are told to apply as the AMS will take you no problem.
  7. Pompey 1

    Mock is an undrstatement, after recently undertaking my RQMS Cse with 17 other capbadges it became apparent the following statement is ever so often heard.

    "Yes I am applying for a commission in my Regiment but I will also apply to the Medics cos if I fail my own Regiment I am sure to get in with that lot"

    The comment most recently heard from WO's within the AMS is "Why should I bother records dont want LE's from the AMS just the other arms"

    I personally feel that some good, no, very good WO's from the AMS have suffered as the AMS have had so many to choose from other arms. Very Good WO's who's carreers have ended. When they were the correct calibre for LE Commission. I wont mention names but there are people on this site who would be head and shoulders above the majority of current LE Officers.
  8. with you there new Q once again it looks as if the AMS just does not look after it's soldiers aswell as the rest of the army does. If thats the case do we really want to commision and suffer yet more years of mis-management and advice this time from an even higher level.
  9. I personally have never applied and would have to say am currently 70/30 for not applying. However if the truth be known I dont really feel that I have been mis-managed or had any wrong done to me. After hearing some of the horror stories out there Ive been pretty lucky Ive had my two yearly interviews with AMS roadshows and been told what plans are afoot for me and usually they have occurred.

    I must admit the thought of other arms coaching their soldiers from an appropriate point in their careers for commissioning does leave me feeling a slight bit under valued.

    On the whole a reasonably happy Q.
  10. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    It wasn't a snide remark I am just quoting C/S Pongo, a DE MSO who is in the process of leaving the Corps, as have four of the last troopy's I've served with, they have transferred AGC and, or got out. As I have posted before my comrade in the Medical Centre at RMAS has had first had knowledge of trying to do impromptu AMS recruitng during sick parade and he can back up the statement. You should do a case study to all the CSMR's and get the soldiers to rate their DE MSO's and you will find a different result. Your case of the MSO turning down an Inf or Arty commission is interesting, I thought we were still struggling to recruit the medical MSO! I know the Corps thinks the MSO should replace the LE by up to 80%!

    I've spent 24 years wanting my Corps to succeed and am still wiping the slaps in the face with wet kipper off even now. Unfortunatley I deal daily with DE MSO and non RAMC LE who I have to diplomatically say 'you cant do that', or 'we dont have that'- 'or wouldn't it be better to do it this way' but if they had been in the RAMC they would have known that. I am fully aware of the good MSOs- and they are the best of the best, hopefully they will reach command sooner rather than later. Same as the LEs, we all know the ones who should be asked to had their kit in after 5 years but the good ones (Cheffy!) get in them in command! I know of several JNCOs and now SNCOs who were invited to apply for MSO commssions and declined, as they don't want the stigma of being a subby in the RAMC- that is a quote! One you may be aware of, and he doesn't regret it for one minute- even the AGC wanted him- but he stayed loyal to things he held the highest- mateship and his soldiers below him. He will be one of the best LE's when does finally do it, hopefully the Corps won't demoralize him to a point of not doing it in 8 years time.

    I am one of the OAB who still hold the dream of a Corps we can be proud of- (I am deep down, ) but the RAMC has taken 1 step forward and 100 miles back- and no one can see the light at the end of the tunnell- and if they can it will be the MoD with a torch and another bag full of cuts and disbandments!
  11. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    You must be one of those blokes who ring up and speak face to face with K, lucky you, I am not sure what happended to me,- Tidworth, Sennelager, Pirbright and Mons Bks! Still nothing less than what RCR would wish apon me! Still its nice to be thought of!
  12. Hey I didnt say I ws jumping up and down for joy and neither would you be with LICHFIELD, ALDERSHOT, TIDWORTH, CATTERICK all on the trot ! If someone had told me that 12 years ago I would have up sticks and gone. However I have enjoyed the trip and met some damn fine chaps along the way.

    Now in the land of LOA happy bunny or at least for now ?
  13. 4 out of 8 RAMC warrant officers selected for commission !

    Not a bad result I suppose more than we (the royal we of arrse) expected anyone got any comments ?

    TM, Q, anyone ?
  14. New Q, do you know where the other four originate from. Can you confirm we've got two ex-booties now in the corps...! :evil: 8)
  15. Newly commissioned are from the following

    4 x RAMC (3 x WO1 1 x WO2)
    2 X Booties
    2 x Inf
    1 x RLC

    Trust Me