RAMC - MoD is lying about Herrick troops medical care

#1
Wounded British troops are being evacuated from the battlefield more slowly than the Americans managed in Vietnam 40 years ago, one of the Army's most senior surgeons has revealed.

Lt Col Paul Parker says hospitals could run out of blood, oxygen and drugs if more than two seriously wounded troops arrived at the same time

In a withering attack on defence medical policy, Lt Col Paul Parker condemned the treatment of injured troops in Iraq and Afghanistan as being "excessively slow". He blamed the delays on "too much middle management".

Several soldiers have died in Afghanistan following delays in deploying a helicopter and medical crew, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt.

Col Parker, an orthopaedic surgeon who has served on operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans and Sierra Leone, said a fundamental failing of British defence policy was that the military still lacked a "dedicated all-weather medical helicopter fleet", specifically designed to rescue battlefield casualties.

Writing in the Royal Army Medical Corps Journal, he said: "In Vietnam, wounded soldiers arrived in hospital within 25 minutes of injury. In Iraq in 2005, that figure is 110 minutes, on Operation Herrick IV, (Afghanistan 2006 ) the average pre-hospital time was seven hours. A casevac [casualty evacuation] request has to go through too many layers of command.
In full

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/17/ntroops117.xml

also

"The claim by the Ministry of Defence that British troops are getting the best medical care available is a lie," one senior officer has told The Sunday Telegraph
In full

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/06/17/dl1701.xml
 
#2
Tony lied as per normal and no way can I see things getting better under GB.
Just how many Toms will have to die or be maimed I do not know and I suppose THEY don't care.
I understand the US is introducing a 'New ' Casavac heli for situations where the Blackhawk is to large.
john
Heads need to roll in Westminster for this selling out of the British soldier.
 
#3
jonwilly said:
Tony lied as per normal and no way can I see things getting better under GB.
Just how many Toms will have to die or be maimed I do not know and I suppose THEY don't care.
I understand the US is introducing a 'New ' Casavac heli for situations where the Blackhawk is to large.
john
Heads need to roll in Westminster for this selling out of the British soldier.
Whilst I'm no fan of Tony Blair not everything bad in the defence of the country can be laid at his door. The layers of command that lead to delays in deploying casevac helicopters are military rather than political failings. The lack of all weather helicopters for casevac is worrying and a wait of 7 seven hours to get to hospital is going to affect outcome. However what would be interesting to know is if this average wait of 7 hours includes those requiring medical treatment for minor injuries as well as major trauma.
 
#4
If this story is factually correct then it is a national disgrace.

I agree with 'jonwilly' and declare that the deficiencies in the Armed Forces ARE the fault of Blair.

Twenty-five years ago all the wounded who were recovered from the battle-fields survived and now?

Blair has two wars raging, both at his behest in support of his attempt to be considered an important figure on the world stage, but what is he doing? He is prancing around the globe looking for a job! He is unbelieveably awful.
 
#5
Its simply there are not enough helicopters to have some sitting around waiting for casevac missions .The last documentry I watched about afgan
said the yanks had more dedicated casevac choppers in thearte than we had choppers total .
 
#6
I was minding my own business shopping in Wootton Bassett High Street on Friday at 1600 when I noticed the presence of some veterans and several police. Seconds later I saw blue lights flashing from the direction of Lyneham and realised in an instant what was happening. I stepped to the side of the road, stood to attention and waited for the hearse to pass. The moment the union flag draped coffin passed by I was overcome by sadness, another young soldier had fallen and was being repatriated through RAF Lyneham. My local town is respecting every single repatriation. Blair has not respected any. Maybe if he was brave enough to attend, he might remember that terrible feeling, and go back and do something about it. And start with medical resources.
 
#7
Almost the most distasteful part of that article is the response by his CoC (and boy, does the phonetic version of that acronym fit in this case...)

In a statement, Lt Gen Louis Lillywhite, the Surgeon General and the head of the Defence Medical Service, said: "The care that we provide is equal to that which would be expected in any major trauma centre in Europe and the USA.

Helicopters are always available when required and are manned by highly qualified medical teams. It is damaging to the morale of our troops to falsely suggest that the care is otherwise than excellent."
No you C0ck, what damages morale is lying and spin from people like you. 'Helicopters are always available when required' particualrly made me laugh...
 
#8
Nigegilb.. was this the repatriation of CPL Wilson from The Rifles?. I heard earlier in the week that he was due home on Friday. I thought his home coming must have been delayed judging by the lack of media coverage. Obviously it was not regarded as a news worthy story. Shame on the media. I have to say that as with the reaction of yourself, the public reaction in general to these home comings are very respectfull. Most people I know realise that you don't have to agree with the war to honour the sad return of brave people.

Apologies for taking this off thread.
 
#9
Camman I tried to find out who it was but there was literally nothing in the press. The folk in the butchers shop told me it was the 150th victim, but I wasn't able to verify. The High Street fell silent, we did him proud. It is still a shocking sight though. The reaction from everyone young and old was the same. Very, very respectful. The butcher said, "they are all so young, aren't they?"

Sorry for taking off thread.
 
#10
I read in the article that some of those injured are suing the MoD. Sadly this is the only way to bring about change. The mendacious politicians who are responsible for under-funding and over-committment will only pay for equipment if they are held to account in public in the courts and in the media. Well done to Col Parker for speaking out, and well done also to Lt Maunder-Taylor of the Irish Guards who features in the Telegraph letters page, raising the issue of Mr Pun VC and the shame with which Britain appears to treat its Armed Forces.
 
#11
Just a couple of things to throw in the pot, Paul Parker is renowned for being a whinging, whining, self serving twat and Louis Lillywhite has absolutely no credibility in the AMS and is so universally unpopular that its genuinely scary.
 
#12
Things may get better in a couple of months, wait out on that.

Regardless, the lies that have been told, particularly in regards to the '14 new helicopters' are truly disgraceful.

They will take years to arrive in theatre, and the stop-gap measures in the meantime are frightening to work with.

They simply will not give us the level of funding required for us to provide the best service we can.
 
#13
The fact that these stories keep cropping up is a cause for concern in itself. I know nothing of the personalities involved, but instinct points toward siding with Lt Col Parker. The credibility of the Govt, the MOD, and increasingly the Brass, has sunk so low that their views are virtually worthless. An officer feeling the need to go public in this way is indicative that something is very wrong - it was unheard of in years gone by. No doubt he'll be shifted, and someone more pliable installed, which won't change a thing on the ground.

If what Parker is saying is correct, it's an obscenity. But there won't be any debate about it , if the govt has it's way. Just the denials from on high. It's a story with undertones of the Crimea, pre Florence N. Not in tune with Tone's 'carey- sharey' multi-everything modern day paradise. I'm amazed at the fortitude and forebearance of the troops. They know the real truth, whatever it is.
 
#14
I had the pleasure of meeting Lt Col Parker a month or so ago; he seemed switched on, and was very helpful to me. He also didn't seem afraid to say what he thought - good on him for speaking out.
Sky Monkey - does it matter if he does whinge? We need more people to kick up a fuss, thankfully, from the impression I've got from some doctors I've met over the last year, it does seem that there will be a few more MOs who are extremely p!ssed off reaching the rank where their voices are more likely to be heard.
Not that the government will listen to anything less than a huge tragedy which threatens to lose them votes......
 
#15
I've had the (dis)pleasure of serving with him on several op tours and believe me, he won't do anything unless he can get something out of it personally.
 
#17
crow_bag said:
My experience of the casevac procedure was roughly 20 - 30 minutes from getting injured to the chinook turning up and then another 15 - 20 minutes ish to get back to Bastion i can't be exact as i had more important things on my mind at the time.

If we'd had some serious injuries or someone else had been injured while the chinook was en route back to Bastion then this may have been too long.

It doesn't help when you have to move the HLS because everyman and his dog try and shoot the chinook down
Im sure every soldier and officer out there is doing his upmost to ensure immediate treatment and casevac procedures are carried out to the best of there abilities. When these reports go to press or are quoted they are mainly back in the UK with bright blue skies, flowers growing and birds singing unlike the sometimes chaotic situations we are facing on the ground. In an ideal world we would have a squadron of response helicopters parked behind every cloud but then we'd have tax payers and MP's talking about waste of equipment being parked up and not required. We can do all our drills to the best of our abilities but if the enemy decides that we cant use there plot of land for HLS then we adapt and overcome but unfortunately then statistics will change and shows poor response times but wont say it was because a fire fight was in full flow. I hope evreything went ok with you Crowbag and if my lads or me need the casevac system it will work for us but feel putting the media are once again trying to undermine the Military by slinging mud.
Sorry if I upset anyone injured with this statement it wasnt intended to, back off my soap box.
 
#18
I remember standing with my CO next to the then CDS (Boyce) and listening to him laugh at my CO's suggestion for dedicated Blackhawk-style SH CASEVAC. I suspect the response will still be the same.
 
#19
Jacques_Bustard said:
jonwilly said:
Tony lied as per normal and no way can I see things getting better under GB.
Just how many Toms will have to die or be maimed I do not know and I suppose THEY don't care.
I understand the US is introducing a 'New ' Casavac heli for situations where the Blackhawk is to large.
john
Heads need to roll in Westminster for this selling out of the British soldier.
Whilst I'm no fan of Tony Blair not everything bad in the defence of the country can be laid at his door.
Why not? What is his job - he had a massive majority so no problem there. He accepted responsibility; the buck stops with him He stood up in Parliament and said he would sort it
However what would be interesting to know is if this average wait of 7 hours includes those requiring medical treatment for minor injuries as well as major trauma.
The article refers to men stuck in a minefield - serious injuries. No air resource could get them out. One chopper available had no strop and ALL the others on ops. Never mind the average - that will do to illustrate what a clusterf*ck it all is. The nob at MOD who came out with the pretty words should be shot
Incidentally - any comments re using the one chopper they had and using it to bring in EOD to clear route into minefield?
 

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