RAMC Doctrine (which version do you have?)

It is sad when one hears people say that the Corps has changed Doctrine once again. What is even sadder is when doctrine has not been tried and tested yet certain CO's are already trying new ideas without the rest of the Corps being aware.

Which version do you have? what changes should be made to improve it? Let all of us know so we can staff the useful pointers through our chains of command which is normally to the next superior and then to the bin cos we knows nothing see !

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Well the fact the Fd Hosps all have their own way of doing things, like why 22 FH need 150 ISO's (example) and 33FH only need 100 ISO's?

Why is there no generic packing lists, SOP's or USOI's? As a soldier posted from 33 Fd Hosp to 22 Fd Hosp(God forbid), would know nothing of how they do business as it is totally different to 33 Fd Hosp.

How do the TA cope?

33 Fd Hosp have a superb DOAST, drawn up by a SQMS, that cover all eventuallities and I am sure the Powers that be haven't even laid eyes on it. As the same of his Easy Use UET, Excel document, absolutley brilliant that even a BOWO wondered why this method hadn't been staffed up. I digress, (for a change!)

But like SSM said its COs having a pi$$ing contest,- "My trainset is better than your trainset" Re-inventing the wheel, even being told by 20 year Warrant Officers that the system was tried 15 years and failed, but because the 'inventing' Officer is an ex- AGC or RLC WO LE, whos only contact with the RAMC prior to this was moaning in a Med Centre to a MO about a rash; and he thinks he knows best. Seen it 100 times, the Chain of Evacuation can only be tweaked so much, move things, yes. Re-jig ORBATs, but at the end of the day a RAP is a RAP, a DS is a DS and a Fd Hosp is a Fd Hosp.

Soldier gets shot, RAMC treats soldier- soldier evacuated rearwards or soldier is RTU'd.
(Oh, or he dies!) That should be the front page of any RAMC doctrine.
Lets just see how many people are aware of current Doctrine being used in the Big Desert Training Area ?

Question 1:

What is a RAmbO and what is its role within the AMS Evac Chain ?

Question 2:

Currently how does a casualty get from Armd Amb to Whld Amb ?

These are not trick questions I am just interested in what current approach is being taken towards the Evacuation from role 1 to role 2 facilities across the Corps.
Just to highlight one new idea ?

The placement of a troop commander fwd with the Battlegroup to co-ordinate the movement of both Armd and Whld ambulances he/she will be known as the Regimental Ambulance Officer RAmbO for short.

He or she will be strong enough in character to tell a Battlegroup Log Offr what needs to happen ?

In reality he or she will be a batman for some MTO or QM within the Battlegroup and will be given a merry old run around I am sure.
Firstly, the business about putting Tp CPs and what have you into BGs is, conveniently. headed 'draft doctrine'. So, at time of writing, the doctrine hasn't changed (and, admittedly with a serious bit of reading between the lines, what is being done can just about be claimed to be in line with the current doctrine which is, if I may say so, both a fascinating read and a scintillating topic for dinner table conversation)
Interestingly, the BGs are in favour as, along with the CP comes med sect (as expected) and some of those jolly useful ambulance thingies.  Particularly those BGs who took casualties during Op TELIC.  I think we can say that it has now been tested, albeit not to destruction (but we had tried that at CAST and CATT previously).

Doctrinal change should be a team sport but someone has to start the ball rolling.  And what is being done is in line with the Acute Care Concept .. or have you not heard of that either??
Quality dig at the end there would probably have gone over other troop commanders heads if they held them up long enough sadly they are so depressed at being kept in the dark about current doctrine then getting ragged for not knowing ??

Of course the BG's are happy as it is taking work off their hands that they have never quite managed to get right.

The accute care concept now theres a funny old thing as all neccessary items of importance it is not yet taught on JMQC, SMQC, WOMQC, Common Core Course or CMT 1.  Why is this do some echelons not think that the humble down trodden and general scruff bag CMT wont understand or just doesnt need to know ???
Funny - my Cbt Med Techs know - but maybe because that's be cause I do the dubious thing of actually telling them what I know ... and what I don't know.  What is happening with Op TELIC anyhow - 4 days , 4 plans, what the hell is going on??  Answers on a postcard to the usual address....

my Cbt Med Techs know - but maybe because that's be cause I do the dubious thing of actually telling them what I know ... and what I don't know.

That answers my point to a Tee !

You shouldnt have to tell them, they should be trained on mass. Relevant subjects are not taught on the relevant courses. CMTs never taught what they need which always leaves them looking for the int they require and on many occassions getting the wrong info.

Runts of the litter (litter being the AMS)
the acute care concept sounds great.............not really relevant to a military managment course..................remember the AMSconsistsof 4 parts and the RAVC do not need the knowledge you're suggesting, they have enough trouble with the NBC bit as they do not use it. The AMS does now however have a whole day on MIMMS which even the RAVC found useful although at present you cannot get accreditation for the days study and if you require accreditation you'll have to sit through it again!!
RAVC what on earth are you on about ?

What training do they actually need like ?

A day at the Barbara Woodhouse prep school and the knowhow to open a tin of dog food !

Why exactly did the RAVC come into the fold (AMS) anyway should have gone to the RLC ?
RAMC doctrine maybe changed once again in the Autumn with the release of the defence white paper. A little bird has informed me that Close Support Medical Regiments are to be scaled down in size to Close support Medical Battalions...! Any truth in these rumours, I dont know. But if it happens you got the info from the Self Admin Region of Hong Kong first. 8) 8)
It may change later this year but it will be another 10 years before all of the Med Regt's are nearly singing off the same song sheet ?

Nearly ! ! !

My point was that the acute care concept is not really a management skill, and is not required by all of the AMS. The JMQC, SMQC, WOMQC are military and management skill courses not medical training, that is an entirely different kettle of fish.
NBinBlack said:
....The JMQC, SMQC, WOMQC are military and management skill courses....
NB do you believe that these courses actually achieve what they set out to teach i.e. do they make DMS personnel better military managers :twisted:
Pox_Dr said:
NB do you believe that these courses actually achieve what they set out to teach i.e. do they make DMS personnel better military managers :twisted:
I don't think they do and I question whether they were intended to. I believe these courses give you managerial guidance as to what you should be doing at the relevant rank for which they are aimed. As well as fine tuneing any managerial skills that you may already have, showing you how to use them in a more appropriate way. They also refresh your knowledge of managerial techniques and introduce you to new ones that you may never have come across before.
sorry not to finish my post before but had lives to save and all that(not really walls to wash) anyway back to this new doctrine once again it would seem that the idea is to once again invent the wheel but just with new fandango names for everyone and everything with the inclusion of TEAM MEDICS and of course where would we be without our trained ambulance personnel but out goes the good old RAP and DS to be replaced a UAP and Critical Care Station it would seem that before we manage to make the last ideas work than theres already new ones to trip us up :roll:
One question I would like answered with regards to the Critical Care Stations is were do they expect to get the extra specialist Mo's from

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