RAFAux and JPA
- Thread starter msr
- Start date
I am not and do not claim to be a JPA Guru but however to attempt to help you:
Untrained soldiers are Private Class 4 Therefore as long as they have an Army Number they show in JPA against a LSN. So as soon as they have completed Recruit Training and are 'Trained Soldiers' they should be reclassed as Private (or equivalent) Class 3.
It would appear that 'Non Effectives' will still show on Unit Establishmnet and it may have to be back to the trawl of Drill Sheets to show non attendance or 'Non Effective'. It may be that Units are still using the numbers game instead of discharging the dead wood.
Why would you need to 'Borrow' LSN from a sub unit? A soldier can be held against a LSN even if not qualified for that position. It may be that they are going to be trained to take up that LSN. Or is it over bearing that you are trying to achieve. If so then an internal 'Attachment' Order from one Sub Unit to another may be in order.
Hope this helps you. As JPA is going to be with us come what may, the only solutions are to think like a computer and tweak what we have already.
Untrained soldiers are Private Class 4 Therefore as long as they have an Army Number they show in JPA against a LSN. So as soon as they have completed Recruit Training and are 'Trained Soldiers' they should be reclassed as Private (or equivalent) Class 3.
It would appear that 'Non Effectives' will still show on Unit Establishmnet and it may have to be back to the trawl of Drill Sheets to show non attendance or 'Non Effective'. It may be that Units are still using the numbers game instead of discharging the dead wood.
Why would you need to 'Borrow' LSN from a sub unit? A soldier can be held against a LSN even if not qualified for that position. It may be that they are going to be trained to take up that LSN. Or is it over bearing that you are trying to achieve. If so then an internal 'Attachment' Order from one Sub Unit to another may be in order.
Hope this helps you. As JPA is going to be with us come what may, the only solutions are to think like a computer and tweak what we have already.
WD,
It is my understanding that JPA will only pay someone in a slot (I believe LSNs are replaced by PINs) if they are qualified to hold that position.
There may be a need to 'borrow' LSNs to cover the situation where we have previously been holding a L/Bdr in a Bdr slot.
Also, are there any plans to extend the Helpdesk hours to cover the fact that the TA will log on from approx 1930-2130 during the week or at the weekends?
Finally, what happens if someone is promoted on tour (e.g. Gnr to L/Bdr) and we have no L/Bdr slots left available on the 8005 when they return?
msr
It is my understanding that JPA will only pay someone in a slot (I believe LSNs are replaced by PINs) if they are qualified to hold that position.
There may be a need to 'borrow' LSNs to cover the situation where we have previously been holding a L/Bdr in a Bdr slot.
Also, are there any plans to extend the Helpdesk hours to cover the fact that the TA will log on from approx 1930-2130 during the week or at the weekends?
Finally, what happens if someone is promoted on tour (e.g. Gnr to L/Bdr) and we have no L/Bdr slots left available on the 8005 when they return?
msr
The TA/Reserves are the only Units to have untrained soldiers on their books. If JPA does not allow 'Unqualified' to hold a LSN then we can never recruit as an 'Untrained' soldier would be unable to occupy that LSN for even a 'Trained' Private. So I do believe that JPA will allow this to happen. Take the case of an Senior being placed in a postion that menas he has to be course trained, he still occupies that LSN until course pass and becomes qualified. So I do believe that JPA HAS to allow it.
Re Promotions:
That may be the case to use attachment orders to have someone senior to occupy the post you require. The attachment order can be used both ways so The Cpl filling a Lcpl slot is attached to one subunit and the sub unit can then promote a Pte to Lcpl using the other LSN as long as attachment orders are done to assist with pay etc.
Promotions 'In the Field' can only be done if there is a vacancy on the 'Home' 8005. The only way round is to to make either 'Local' (which is unpaid) rank or fill a sub unit LSN. The person on tour is effectively 'off the books' as they are posted to the Unit he is attached to for admin purposes so there has to be a vacancy in the Unit for a promotion to be effected. The problem then only occurs on his return to his Parent Unit. Then it is up to the Commanding Officer to alloctae His Troops to where he sees fit. even if it has to go to the attachment order system.
Hope this helps
Re Promotions:
That may be the case to use attachment orders to have someone senior to occupy the post you require. The attachment order can be used both ways so The Cpl filling a Lcpl slot is attached to one subunit and the sub unit can then promote a Pte to Lcpl using the other LSN as long as attachment orders are done to assist with pay etc.
Promotions 'In the Field' can only be done if there is a vacancy on the 'Home' 8005. The only way round is to to make either 'Local' (which is unpaid) rank or fill a sub unit LSN. The person on tour is effectively 'off the books' as they are posted to the Unit he is attached to for admin purposes so there has to be a vacancy in the Unit for a promotion to be effected. The problem then only occurs on his return to his Parent Unit. Then it is up to the Commanding Officer to alloctae His Troops to where he sees fit. even if it has to go to the attachment order system.
Hope this helps
Dear All,
It is accepted that there is a large wastage rate during recruit training. Across the board attempts are being made to reduce this. However:
It would seem logical that a TA recruit is allocated an LSN at Attestation (they get paid from this point), or as soon as they receive their Army Number thereafter.
If recruits occupy a Unit LSN for a trained soldier, given the wastage rates during training it follows that a TA Unit can NEVER achieve full manning with trained soldiers.
Is there a central pool of recruit LSN's at RTC's or individual pools for units, to allow "overbearing of recruits" IOT enable full manning to be achieved?
Yours ever,
GH
It is accepted that there is a large wastage rate during recruit training. Across the board attempts are being made to reduce this. However:
It would seem logical that a TA recruit is allocated an LSN at Attestation (they get paid from this point), or as soon as they receive their Army Number thereafter.
If recruits occupy a Unit LSN for a trained soldier, given the wastage rates during training it follows that a TA Unit can NEVER achieve full manning with trained soldiers.
Is there a central pool of recruit LSN's at RTC's or individual pools for units, to allow "overbearing of recruits" IOT enable full manning to be achieved?
Yours ever,
GH
I do not think it possible to have LSNs for just recruit soldiers. Whilst I do understand the problem that is why the 'Reserves' are at a lower readiness state. If there was a general mobilisation of reserves the time factor between call out and deployment is designed so that any training deficiencies would be resolved by the time allowed. I.E. R7 is 90 days, so in the 90 days even a 'raw' recruit would have time to be trained to trained soldier standard. With the current 'state' of reserves it is unlikely that many ,if any, can even achieve 95% manning.
A Basic recruits course is only 14 days. So if mobilisation were to be ordered then I am sure that training facilities would suddenly become available for the Unit to achieve the necessary objectives.
A Basic recruits course is only 14 days. So if mobilisation were to be ordered then I am sure that training facilities would suddenly become available for the Unit to achieve the necessary objectives.
Gents,
There is no point asking how the RAFAux have coped with JPA as they have not yet moved onto to it. You may be surprised to hear that they will come on when the army go live! I am not positive but I do not think the RNR have moved to JPA yet either so it is all a bit of unknown. LSNs have actually been replaced by PIDs (Position ID). You can hold 2 individuals against any PID as long as they are of equal rank and trade.
There is no point asking how the RAFAux have coped with JPA as they have not yet moved onto to it. You may be surprised to hear that they will come on when the army go live! I am not positive but I do not think the RNR have moved to JPA yet either so it is all a bit of unknown. LSNs have actually been replaced by PIDs (Position ID). You can hold 2 individuals against any PID as long as they are of equal rank and trade.
Given all the bad press that JPA has been getting, a word in their favour - have you seen all the press coverage saying how awful JPA is since the RN went 'live' some weeks ago?
No? That's because, for the most part, it worked. The Helpline is getting very few calls (around one or two per day) and people have been paid.
I realise that the Army will be a bigger deal, but if the system can cope with the very complicated RN pay and allowances structure, it bodes well for the Army, and even for the TA
No? That's because, for the most part, it worked. The Helpline is getting very few calls (around one or two per day) and people have been paid.
I realise that the Army will be a bigger deal, but if the system can cope with the very complicated RN pay and allowances structure, it bodes well for the Army, and even for the TA
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