RAF Warrant Officers far superior to the Armys...

#1
Now I have your attention please read on...

There is an ongoing issue in JHQ over the accommodation entitlement of WOs. As you are all aware, ORs housing is allocated on the basis of size of family. What a surprise then to discover that RAF WOs are 'entitled' to a D Type quarter whilst their Army counterparts are entitled only if they are available. In addition, across the range of ORs, if there is not a suitable quarter available then housing offices can allocate housing below the recommendation. For example, if a Type C is not available for a SSgt then he is obliged to accept a type B. This only applies to the Army and RN, the RAF must be allocated the correct type of quarter.

The issue here is that if RAF WO and Army WO1s are paid exactly the same, why are the terms and conditions regarding housing on a completely different league.

I have issues that ORs housing is allocated on a family size basis. In my unit i have a WO1 (married & two kids) living in a smaller house than one of my full screws (married & four kids). They live ten doors apart. If they were in civvy street then they would live according to their means i.e. a Cpl couldn't afford such a large house and would have to squeeze into a smaller one. There should be a reward that comes with the rank, an incentive to work hard, obtain the rank and all the 'trappings' that come with it.

There is a common thought that our young soldiers should be in the best accommodation possible. Whilst they shouldn't live in slums, their accommodation should not be to the standard of the Officers or Sergeant's messes. When you reward the rank (with good accommodation) then you empower the rank. You reinforce the belief in people that they are valued and that they have worked hard for a reason.

When it comes to signing off, the short term reaction to halting the boys signing off was to give them the best accommodation. Dont worry about the SNCOs who are living in poor standard in the mess. The men in suits forget that the boys form most of their opinions from their SNCOs, a vicious circle but easily manipulated. Empower the Sgt's Mess. Stop the undermining of their rank and position. Do this then sit back and watch the majority of manning problems sort themselves.

Grateful for any comments, particularly on the RAF WOs business. (please try to keep the crab abuse to a minimum te he he...)
 
B

Biscuits_AB

Guest
#2
Whine all you want mate, all this does is shows that the RAF have their sh*t together more than the Army does.

You have a major problem in JHQ and it comes in the form of your SSO.

The WO's and Sgts Mess in JHQ is full of wasters and whiners as well. They deserve to live in sh*t accommodation.
 
#3
"Whilst they shouldn't live in slums, their accommodation should not be to the standard of the Officers or Sergeant's messes"

Have you ever stayed in the mess in Woolwich, I used to march young gunners into their single accn that was by far and I really mean far above the standard of my poxy hole in the mess.

The point you make about living to their means can bite as some guys leave the mob and gain wages far in excess of what they were used to.
 
#4
NoahZark said:
RAF WOs are 'entitled' to a D Type quarter whilst their Army counterparts are entitled only if they are available.
You're a dull tw@t aren't you.

whatever the rules and regs say it's the same for RAF WOs as it is for the army.

So what you are saying is that if a quarter is not available then an army warrant officer won't get one. Surely if there isn't a quarter available an RAF WO wouldn't get one either BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ONE AVAILABLE. You can dress it up as you like with the regs on entitlement but if there isn't a house you can't live in it.
 
#5
There was a CGS briefing note that went around about the WO1 entitlement. If WO1 is a major unit RSM then he is allocated a type D if not then he gets what he is entitled to. The RAF have got their Sh1t together ref terms and conditions, its our fault for accepting what were told and getting on with it (the can do thing). You should hear them ring up there desk officer to talk about where they're next posting is, it opened my eyes to how to keep the workforce happy (drop the discipline standards). :lol:
 
#7
Sorry mate, you've totally missed the point.

Soldiers get improved accommodation when the cash is available because they need to be kept happy.
You don't, because you're pension trapped and nobody gives a fcuk.
 
#8
Don't the RAF control the budgets for accomodation etc. That is why RAF messes have swimming pools whilst Army messes have a leaking tap to create a puddle.
 
#10
Redcap said:
Don't the RAF control the budgets for accomodation etc. That is why RAF messes have swimming pools whilst Army messes have a leaking tap to create a puddle.
Eh? And how many do you know of? I've never heard of an RAF mess with a swimming pool, there MAY be one at Halton as it actually belongs to the Rothschild family, but that's only a 'might have' AND it's an officers mess.

Lairdx has it bang on, if there's no type D available then no-one can have one. And I'm pretty sure that DHE doesn't have differing regs for each branch of the service.
 
#11
NoahZark said:
I have issues that ORs housing is allocated on a family size basis. In my unit i have a WO1 (married & two kids) living in a smaller house than one of my full screws (married & four kids).
I bet the CO has a huge old beast of a house, though.
 
#12
Redcap said:
Don't the RAF control the budgets for accomodation etc. That is why RAF messes have swimming pools whilst Army messes have a leaking tap to create a puddle.
I have stayed in a few RAF Sgts Messes myself over the years, and whilst I've never seen a swimming pool, without fail they have all been better than Army Messes. However, I suspect the main reason why is nothing to do with them being treated any better than us, it's merely a question of economies of scale. Army units are generally small, and spread over wider geographic areas; RAF units generally tend to cluster together round something central like, erm, an airfield. Therefore, assuming that each Mess is funded to a similar degree per head, they can concentrate their resources much better than we can.
Bear in mind also that their senior ranks tend to be older than ours because their career is worked out up until 55. The occupants of RAF Messes are therefore older and crustier, and less prepared to put up with a second rate service. Now I have passed the 40 mark myself, I think that's a good thing.
Do you think we would get better standards if we whinged louder? Probably not, because a) we live in a culture that just gets on with it and looks on whingeing as a bad thing, and b) most of our Messes are trapped into long term service contracts, so we have to put up with it until they expire.
 
#13
bottom line is that RAF messes are better than ours because they are run by RAF stewards who have a career structure....therefore they provide the best service they can..

army messes are run by the likes of sodexho..... a pile of agency shite.....
 
#14
junetheloon said:
bottom line is that RAF messes are better than ours because they are run by RAF stewards who have a career structure....therefore they provide the best service they can..

army messes are run by the likes of sodexho..... a pile of agency shite.....
Think they have to put up with this too now. Last time I was at an RAF mess (Halton) it was civilian staff and very sh1t and rude they were too. I was told this is par for the course now - ?
 
#15
Go to RAF Cosford, have a look at the quarter an RLC WO1 Conductor was given. Then go and see what every RAF WO was given. Out of interest I attended the JSWOC at Shrivenham last year, along with 4 RN WOs and 4 RAF WOs, a very interesting course that highlighted the differences between how WOs are treated by their respective services. From what I can gather the RN and RAF do arrange the allocation (through DHE) of Officers quarters (or equivalent) to WOs, they don't have to be the SWO or the MAA or any other type of RSM equivalent. The reason they get away with it is because their own powers that be submit a case to DHE on their behalf, it's not rocket science and actually your own chain of command can do the same (if they can be bothered).
 
#16
I have a massive D Type quarter and it is very nice, my garden is huge!
My mess is shite though.
 
#17
There was a bandsman at RMAS back in the eighties, who had an EIGHT bedroom quarter. He had TEN kids, so they knocked the walls through on two adjoining 4 beds in Pine Close.
Nows theres a man who really needed a hobby. :wink:
 
#18
Pine Close is now Gurkha City!
 
#19
Filbert Fox said:
Pine Close is now Gurkha City!
They're more than welcome to it Filbert, it was always a bit of a sh*t-hole. :wink:
 
#20
Check JSP 464 (Revised 2005)

An RAF WO is the equivelent in Rank to a WO1 Army. It has been decreed that all WO1 (or equivalent rank) will be issued a D type SFA when available. Otherwise it will only be Station WO or WO1 (RSM) who get the first shout.

This is a joint service thing and not a thing that SSO's or housing Dept choose to do at the time. If, however,the Housing Dept seem to be moving the posts, use the complaints procedure laid down in the Land Customer Charter. Its not a guaranteed answer to your plight but it might raise a few eyebrows in the right places and questions may be asked.

Otherwise you could always just march yourself into a D Type that has the door open anyway............You think I'm Joking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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