RAF Reserve - Retention of Rank

metplod

Clanker
Guys,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations concerning retention of rank on transfer from the TA to the RAF Reserve?

I know that it would generally depend on vacancies at the rank etc, but I have a friend who went from the TA (on age), straight into the RAF Reserve doing essentially the same job, and he was reduced from stripey back to full screw.

At the time the reason given was that the same sqn had already set a precedent by taking on a staffy but reducing him to stripey, and that had become the sqn's policy.

This just doesn't seem right. I've done some trawling about on armynet and have found that transfer from RN or RAF to the army should, wherever possible, be at the same rank. However I couldn't find anything about transfer between reserve forces. I may end up going across myself when father time decrees it, but am loath to take a reduction in rank just because of "sqn policy".

Anyone able to help out with the relevant regulations please?
 

Lumpy

Old-Salt
I also looked at this recently, and was told that due to JPA, you have to leave the TA completely, then go through the RAF Aux recruiting process, joining on the bottom rung....

Must admit, I didnt pursue it much more than that due to the distance I'd have to travel.
 

bubsnicket

Old-Salt
Bear in mind that even if you do leave the TA completely and join the crabs "on the bottom rung", if there is a gap of less then 30 days between signing off the TA and signing on the RAFR you are not seen as having a "break in service" and should be entitled to keep your same pay grade, regardless of rank... could end up the most overpaid aircraftman in the world!
 
metplod said:
Guys,

Does anyone know if there are any regulations concerning retention of rank on transfer from the TA to the RAF Reserve?

I know that it would generally depend on vacancies at the rank etc, but I have a friend who went from the TA (on age), straight into the RAF Reserve doing essentially the same job, and he was reduced from stripey back to full screw.

At the time the reason given was that the same sqn had already set a precedent by taking on a staffy but reducing him to stripey, and that had become the sqn's policy.

This just doesn't seem right. I've done some trawling about on armynet and have found that transfer from RN or RAF to the army should, wherever possible, be at the same rank. However I couldn't find anything about transfer between reserve forces. I may end up going across myself when father time decrees it, but am loath to take a reduction in rank just because of "sqn policy".

Anyone able to help out with the relevant regulations please?

Your friend wouldnt happen to be you would it?
 

metplod

Clanker
kentuckyfried said:
Your friend wouldnt happen to be you would it?

No, my mate went over about 2 years ago, has deployed, and is still a full screw (which doesn't bother him too much). Subject came up after a full screw from the RAF Regiment Reserve came across to my unit, kept his rank and was promoted after a trade course.

Seems it only works one way.......?
 

4th_of_foot

Old-Salt
metplod said:
Thanks for that, but can't access it either, any ideas what it actually says?

Sorry Mate, just think that would be where it is, as that's the part of the regulations that deals with recruitment, age limits etc.

Your Mate should be able to get a look at it at his unit though....
 

Hantslad

Old-Salt
I left the TA and joined the RAuxAF. I kept my rank, but I had to have a three month gap between leaving the TA and joining the RAuxAF, because JPA can't cope with shutting one account down and starting a new one. This was the same problem for an ex-regular officer that joined. For the purpose of bounty and VRSM qualification, this DOES NOT count as a break in service.

Curiously, despite that, I kept my Army service number :?

We also had an ex regular Army WO1 join us. He was busted down to Flt Sgt for year until he had done the trade courses to qualify him for our role and then was reappointed as WO when he became our SWO. However he carried on being paid as a WO during that year.

Going to the RAuxAF was a very good move for me :D
 

msr

LE
Ask their PSI?
 
What you need to bear in mind is that the RAF have no equivalent rank for LCpl...whatever a sweaty old rockape tells you, SAC is not LCpl equiv. Believe me, I did 9 years in blue/grey.
 
I left the TA and joined the RAuxAF and had to drop a rank, allegedly as there were no vacancies at the time. They dont have the 'flexible' LSNs as such and being a very much smaller organization, they did not put personnel against another LSN to keep the rank. It was a bit of a bummer with the usual lies 'oh you will get it back soon'. I came in on level one pay but am currently appealing that. Surprised you kept the same army number as I have a new number.

But, we have had regular Wing Commanders and WOs who have recently joined who have had to drop in rank as the Squadron just do not have the slots for them or else you would end up with 10 Wing Commanders and one airman in one flight, so some logic in that.

It is annoying at times to see an SAC you knew in the TA as a Sgt whilst the Squadron have buffoons as Sgts who I would not trust to go to Tesco's on their own
 
polar69 said:
What you need to bear in mind is that the RAF have no equivalent rank for LCpl...whatever a sweaty old rockape tells you, SAC is not LCpl equiv. Believe me, I did 9 years in blue/grey.

Until the start of 2010 when L/Cpl will be introduced, until then i'll just have to be a "senior SAC"
 

Hantslad

Old-Salt
Further to Cpt_Darling's post, here is the thinking behind it..


Lance Corporal Rank to be Introduced for RAF Regiment from 2010
The rank of lance corporal (LCpl) is to be introduced to the Gunner trade in Apr 10 to identify the critical leadership role undertaken by nominated and experienced Gunners on RAF Regt front-line units.

As a result of recent operational experience and following changes to equipment and tactics, there is a need to formalise command and control of RAF Regiment combat elements on operations. The requirement is to identify and mark out the individual who is the section 2IC, in case the section commander is dislocated from his men or injured while on operations.

To meet this requirement, the rank of LCpl will be introduced for the Gunner trade. The first LCpls will be selected and trained in order to take up their posts, on promotion, from 1 Apr 10.


BACKGROUND

Experience on Operations HERRICK and TELIC has highlighted the key role played by RAF Regiment SACs appointed as commanders of small combat elements, leading up to 3 other Gunners, such as in the role of ground close combat section 2IC/fire team commander. The introduction of new weapon systems, tactics and structures has meant that, to a greater extent than before, these SACs have had to operate independently and make command decisions in combat situations.

The Air Force Board Standing Committee’s recent decision to introduce the rank of LCpl to the RAF Regiment will ensure that these junior commanders are officially recognised in the vital leadership roles which they undertake. Gunners selected to fill these posts will be trained, remunerated and given formal command authority through promotion to the rank of LCpl; LCpls will not have the power to bring formal charges against subordinate ranks, but will be able to make use of Minor Administrative Action as appropriate.


IMPLEMENTATION

Specific junior commander posts currently established at SAC level on RAF Regiment front-line units will be re-graded to LCpl; no new posts will be established and no cpl posts will be downgraded. Selection of Gunners to fill LCpl posts will be carried out by ACOS Manning promotion boards, which will be run in the same way as all other ground trade selection boards.

Gunners will require 2 assessments in the rank of SAC to be eligible and those selected will receive formal training before appointment. The first promotion board will sit in 2009, to enable the first LCpls to complete training and take up posts on 01 Apr 10. RAF Regt LCpls will be paid as for LCpls in the British Army and Royal Marines. On promotion to LCpl, all SACs will receive a pay rise – those below IL5 will advance to IL5, those already at IL5 or above will advance to the next IL or receive a 2% pay rise, whichever represents the greater increase. RAF Regt LCpls will be paid on the lower pay band.

The first LCpl training course will commence by Aug 09; however, individuals will not be promoted, paid at the higher rank, or take up post before 1 Apr 10. Further details will be provided to relevant personnel, especially RAF Regt SACs and their chains of command, and other interested parties as required during the implementation period. The new rank is to be introduced for the Gunner trade only as there is currently no operational requirement to introduce the rank for other trades. However, this requirement will be reviewed should a compelling case arise.
 

Voltiguer

War Hero
Interesting, but this LCpl rank is for RAF Regt only - what if he were to transfer into a non-Regt role?

It strikes me its much the same as the RN. Back in the day, Able Seamen would've been your LCpls and Ordinary Seamen your Ptes. But since the rate of OD got deleted, AB covers from entry level to LCpl level, things only evening out at Leading Seaman = Cpl level.

A bit unfair, that in the Army you must get selected for and pass PJNCOs course to get to that LCpl status and paygrades, whereas any AB can presumably just get there by waiting for their AIP levels to go up.
 
Quote from Cpt Darling Until the start of 2010 when L/Cpl will be introduced, until then i'll just have to be a "senior SAC" unquote.

Just back from Op Herrick and the RAFREGT (I believe) are trying this LCpl rank now, primarily to identify 2ics on the patrols out on the ground.

Talked to someone yesterday evening about the very same issue. There ought to be some standardization of the rank structure across the services. It was and probably still is, a pain in the arse with the woodentops and the LSgt rank for some soldier but I can't complain, particularly as I used to wear 4 tapes and a crown at one time.

The old chestnut of WO2 and no equivalent in the RAF is a prime example.
 
Cpt_Darling said:
polar69 said:
What you need to bear in mind is that the RAF have no equivalent rank for LCpl...whatever a sweaty old rockape tells you, SAC is not LCpl equiv. Believe me, I did 9 years in blue/grey.

Until the start of 2010 when L/Cpl will be introduced, until then i'll just have to be a "senior SAC"

Oh for goodness sak, "senior SAC" is a non existent award thought up by your heirachy to make fat old SAC's feel better. Senior senior aircraftsman, do me a favour :roll:
 
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