Raf reductions- structure announced tomorrow

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#4
One wonders whether current 'events' will cause a rethink. SDSR assumption that nothing unexpected could happen having ben blown apart by something unexpected.

What is it about 'unexpected' that these twats do not understand? I wonder if the PM has woken up to the fact his possible COAs would have been far greater if he had something like the Ark Royal and a Squadron or 2 of Harriers at his beck and call.

We may still have chosen the COA we have but wouldn't it have been nice to have had a back up plan.

Wouldn't it be nice if CMD's call to Gadafi was backed with a bit of a perceived threat.
 
#6
One wonders whether current 'events' will cause a rethink. SDSR assumption that nothing unexpected could happen having ben blown apart by something unexpected.

What is it about 'unexpected' that these twats do not understand? I wonder if the PM has woken up to the fact his possible COAs would have been far greater if he had something like the Ark Royal and a Squadron or 2 of Harriers at his beck and call.

We may still have chosen the COA we have but wouldn't it have been nice to have had a back up plan.

Wouldn't it be nice if CMD's call to Gadafi was backed with a bit of a perceived threat.


The whole mission could have been completed with The Ark carrier group much more effectively, providing she had been with sailing time.
 
#10
The whole mission could have been completed with The Ark carrier group much more effectively, providing she had been with sailing time.
Tell me please how "The Ark carrier group" would have got people out "much more effectively" than the five or so chartered aircraft that flew direct to/from the UK and how it would have picked up those that the RAF C130s spirited out.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#11
Tell me please how "The Ark carrier group" would have got people out "much more effectively" than the five or so chartered aircraft that flew direct to/from the UK and how it would have picked up those that the RAF C130s spirited out.
It might have given the planner different options. It may also have provided different back up plans had things gone wrong. The EAGLE CLAW DESERT ONE scenario.

It would also have given us options if the Libyans had demonstrated more willingness to put their airforce in the air to attack the C130's.
 
#13
It might have given the planner different options. It may also have provided different back up plans had things gone wrong. The EAGLE CLAW DESERT ONE scenario.

It would also have given us options if the Libyans had demonstrated more willingness to put their airforce in the air to attack the C130's.
Different option?

You mean, we'd be able to slap a few uppity wogs with our awe inspiring wing of 5 GR9s.

As an expat myself, I'm really starting to feel more secure. Mind you, I demand to be one of the first to be lifted as I don't fancy being left behind when the uppity wogs have become really pissed off...
 
#14
It might have given the planner different options. It may also have provided different back up plans had things gone wrong. The EAGLE CLAW DESERT ONE scenario.

It would also have given us options if the Libyans had demonstrated more willingness to put their airforce in the air to attack the C130's.
This little kerfuffle in the ME is a double edged sword. On the one edge it shows that we should expect the unexpected and be prepared for it. On the other, it has shown that things don't always go south in such shenanigans.

Fact remains, had some nut job started tossing SAMs about, or sending up planes and these charted airliners started to meet some sort of 'resisted landing' scenario they'd have turned about smartly on their tails and thrown the googly to the RAF.

Not sure if the 'Apache trick' works as well on Typhoons though :p
 
#16
This little kerfuffle in the ME is a double edged sword. On the one edge it shows that we should expect the unexpected and be prepared for it. On the other, it has shown that things don't always go south in such shenanigans.
What is unexpected about current events?

Especially in the case of Libya, 'we've' been hoping for just such an event for a good many years.
 
#17
It might have given the planner different options. It may also have provided different back up plans had things gone wrong. The EAGLE CLAW DESERT ONE scenario.

It would also have given us options if the Libyans had demonstrated more willingness to put their airforce in the air to attack the C130's.
So, if people start throwing SAM's about, some RN ASW Merlins with a basic self defence countermeasures fit would be better able to defend themselves than C-130's fitted with high end state of the art countermeasures as the C-130's are expected to fly into war zones with said SAM's being chucked about??

Things I've learned in this thread:

A Merlin HM1 that can sqeeze at best a dozen of so bodies in the back makes a better people mover than a C-130 that can carry 100.

It's better to hang about close offshore with a carrier and a handfull of ASW helicopters than use long range tactical transports from an offshore and friendly island.

If people are throwing missiles about, a slow ASW helicopter fitted with a basic self defence capability and a service ceiling of 15k ft is better than a much faster tactical transport fitted with a state of the art self defence capability and that has a service ceiling of 33k ft.
 

BuggerAll

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#18
What is unexpected about current events?

Especially in the case of Libya, 'we've' been hoping for just such an event for a good many years.
In November 1981 I did a current affairs quiz set by a Captain in the RCT. One of the questions was 'Where are the Falkland Islands?' Yours truly being a smart arrse and watching too much TV knew the answer but most people thought they were near the Orkneys.

I distinctly remember Captain G... saying we should get to know where the Falklands are because that is were the next war we fight will be. Despite the fact that a Captain in the RCT was able to work it out it was still unexpected when it happened.

Despite that fact that you hardly need a crystal ball to predict the possibility of things going bump in the night in the Middle East it has still come as a surprise to our political masters who decided that there was no probability of the unexpected happening because they are not expecting it.
 
#19
Despite what some typically sneering posters would have you believe, an aircraft carrier isn't restricted to carrying Merlins and can operate any type of helo including gunships. What's the practical mission radius of a fully-loaded Chinook and how far is Malta or Cyprus from the Libyan desert compared to an airfield floating anywhere off the coast? Always good to have carrier-embarked FJ flying top cover too, especially as the Libyan Air Force has been shown to have its share of 'maverick' pilots.

Who's prepared to gamble that the operational environment will be sufficiently benign as to allow C.130s unhindered entry and exit next time?
 
#20
Despite what some typically sneering posters would have you believe, an aircraft carrier isn't restricted to carrying Merlins and can operate any type of helo including gunships. What's the practical mission radius of a fully-loaded Chinook and how far is Malta or Cyprus from the Libyan desert compared to an airfield floating anywhere off the coast? Always good to have carrier-embarked FJ flying top cover too, especially as the Libyan Air Force has been shown to have its share of 'maverick' pilots.

Who's prepared to gamble that the operational environment will be sufficiently benign as to allow C.130s unhindered entry and exit next time?
Gamble? I believe Whitecity and Sunoficarus are prepared to personally gaurantee it.....
Aircraft carriers are useless forever-more don't you know?
 

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