RAF jet downed by US team in panic

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by whitecity, Nov 1, 2006.

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  1. Is this a 'new' story? I know the event is old, and the rumours are already severly frayed, but this has only appeared in today's paper...

     
  2. the_boy_syrup

    the_boy_syrup LE Book Reviewer

    It isn't a new story but the inquest has only just been held in Oxford
    I think the sad thing is that the incedent happened in 2003 and only now is the official inquest being held
    3 Years on does it matter what the outcome is
    Are we going to see charges brought after 3 years
    I don't think we will
     
  3. I'm curious as to how they underwent their investigation: Did they interview the missile operators, for example? Paper says 'No' (Though apparently not their fault.

    I like this line, though.

    Its operators had no training in dealing with aircraft or anti- radiation missiles (ARM).

    I find it odd that the ADA school doesn't deal with such fundamentals...

    NTM
     
  4. I'd like to know about that too. Especially for something so Whizzy as Patriot.
     
  5. They were inteveiwed by written questions and answers only, the DoD refused requests that they attended the inquest.

    This came out at the inquest, it may have been a bluff to prevent charges of wilful manslaughter against the crew - but as gambit would be high risk indeed.
     
  6. They were interveiwed by written questions and answers only, the DoD refused requests that they attend.

    This came out at the inquest, it may have been a bluff to prevent charges of wilful manslaughter against the crew - but as gambit would be high risk indeed.
     
  7. The pity is that 3 years on the "other significant events" that may have contributed are all but forgotten or ignored.

    RIP the aircrew.
     
  8. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    I knew the pilot from another Squadron.Apparently the IFF (Identify Friend Foe) which is fitted in all aircraft was faulty on the Tornado & not squarking the correct code or non at all. But it's funny how 90% of blue-on-blue are caused by trigger happy sepics!!(see A-10 X 2!)
    RIP to the crew.
     
  9. Edited for pedantry
     
  10. Some rumours I heard from light blue colleagues a while ago seem to bear out what was reported in the paper. The shot down ac had defective IFF - which is why it was in formation with a wingman. The battery was there to defend against TBMs, no enemy missile launches had been reported, and the flight was expected - after all, the battery was on the main approach to the airbase.

    When the system flashed up a spurious ARM indication upon detecting the Tornado which was diffy IFF any properly trained and half awake crew would have decided not to launch.

    However ... the Patriot battery were allegedly busy panicking over a false alarm CBRN attack and it is uncertain whether or not any human was effectively in control of the engagement - one gets the feeling they filled their pants and hit the button instead of thinking.

    The US have been very quiet about this one, and it is difficult to escape the conclusion that they are deliberately trying to suppress the facts.

    After all, any proven defects in Patriot performance against TBMs will hit sales and lead to awkward questions as to why the US has bought a system that cannot perform as advertised. It will also lead to questions about why ill-trained personnel were deployed, and why the comms links necessary to share the air picture and prevent blue on blue incidents were not set up. Finally, what moron sites a SAM site directly under the approach for one of their major air bases ?
     
  11. I'm just infantry so I don't understand all this technical aeroplane stuff... But do they not have radios? "Hello, my electric thing's not working, don't shoot me down"...
     
  12. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    It's called IFF.It transmits a beacon which identifies the jet but It's turned off on entering enemy airspace as they can read it as well.(used by civvie airliners as well)
    But,the crew turned it on & unknown to them,it was'nt transmitting.
    The first indication the crew would have had was on the RHWR kit.(Radar Homing/Warning Reciever) but from what I gather,it's commonplace for any military jet to be painted by ground based SAA radars.The first thing the crew knew was when the patriot hit.
     
  13. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    It's called IFF.It transmits a beacon which identifies the jet but It's turned off on entering enemy airspace as they can read it as well.(used by civvie airliners as well)
    But,the crew turned it on & unknown to them,it was'nt transmitting.
    The first indication the crew would have had was on the RHWR kit.(Radar Homing/Warning Reciever) but from what I gather,it's commonplace for any military jet to be painted by ground based SAA radars.The first thing the crew knew was when the patriot hit.
     
  14. spike7451

    spike7451 RIP

    It's called IFF.It transmits a beacon which identifies the jet but It's turned off on entering enemy airspace as they can read it as well.(used by civvie airliners as well)
    But,the crew turned it on & unknown to them,it was'nt transmitting.
    The first indication the crew would have had was on the RHWR kit.(Radar Homing/Warning Reciever) but from what I gather,it's commonplace for any military jet to be painted by ground based SAA radars.The first thing the crew knew was when the patriot hit.
     
  15. There was a BBC camera team embedded with the crews squadron at the time - for an episode of 'fighting the war'.

    Followed the squadron up to the first day of bombing iraq and beyond. It had an interview with the wingman - the squadron leader - after the event and not surprisingly he was feeling many different things. Anger, sadness etc. He said he saw the missile approaching and then thought he saw it peter out just behind him... he didnt realise it had hit his wingman until a bit later.

    To soothe any ruffled feathers, the american commander of the AA battery went to the squadrons's base to personally apoligise but that really didnt go down well with the people involved.


    Is a shame, but what can be done about it now?