RAF gunning for Army Helicopters and Fleet Air Arm

#1
According to the Times, The RAF is trying to take over the Royal Navy’s historic Fleet Air Arm and assume control of all army helicopters in a plan to cut more than £1 billion from the defence budget.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article5375713.ece

Seems to me that a great deal more cash would be saved if we turned this argument around and did away with the RAF, and made them all wear green instead. Should trim the T&S budget. Maybe this is all driven by a need to justify all-officer aircrew, or simply a desire to see the RAF celebrating its 100th birthday?
 
#2
Actually, that's what you are seeing here. This is the RAF counter defence to the RN and Army proposal to do just that - relegate the RAF to a smaller and more discrete air element.

But it's a tired and rather hackneyed debate... comes around every few months.
 
#3
uber tri-serviceism

Hopefully the army wont ask for the RAF Regiment in return
 
#4
what a load of Arrse!! Harriers I can understand because the Navy to be honest don't really use them any more on their ships and it will be a while till we get the JSF. But getting the Lynx to be RAF!!!! Never!!!! The crabs wouldn't be able to cope with being at sea in a Mk 3 or 8 Lynx on a Frigate or Destroyer.

It would be cheaper to mingle the RAf in to the other two services!

The 100 year experiment will soon be over!!
 
#6
The Army Air Corps and Fleet Air Arm are vulnerable because, under plans announced earlier this month, their 300 Lynx and Gazelle helicopters will be replaced by just 62 Future Lynx craft.
ER, that cant be right! I suppose it's not like the forces in afg are short of helicopters!
 
#7
boring

We've covered this before:

ARRSE Thread

If you understand the spending cycle, you'll understand that every option has to be looked at.

BTW - dividing the RAF between the RN / Army would be the stupid and expensive option.
 
#8
WannabeWorker said:
what a load of Arrse!! Harriers I can understand because the Navy to be honest don't really use them any more on their ships and it will be a while till we get the JSF. But getting the Lynx to be RAF!!!! Never!!!! The crabs wouldn't be able to cope with being at sea in a Mk 3 or 8 Lynx on a Frigate or Destroyer.

It would be cheaper to mingle the RAf in to the other two services!

The 100 year experiment will soon be over!!


Disband the RAF? That's a vote winner with the election 12-18 months away.

The way we are going, there won't be a Fleet Air Arm, AAC or RAF of note anyway. We'll all be wearing "British Self-Defence Force" TRFs and looking at the armed forces of Tonga with envious eyes.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#10
Totally misses the point that an aircraft carrier and her Air Group are all one weapons system and the people in the carrier have to reach and maintain a high standard of training WITH their aircraft. Google 'ark royal traps' to see what the flight deck people have to do for a living and ask if this can be turned on at will after a period without aircraft - and you can't even see all the other people on board who support the air activity.

Equally the Ship's Flight of an FF/DD are part of the ship''s company and one of the ship's major weapons systems. Oh spare us a world in which some clown who only knows about aeroplanes arrives there and has no clue about lfe in a ship and playing a full part in it.

Also, if you starve the navy's officer corps of aviators because their career path lies only in the RAF, you end up as we were in 1939 with senior naval officers who didn't understand Air, and carrier captains who lost their ships ditto (Courageous, Glorious, Alacrity ..).

crabs' birthday isn't all Fools Day by accident.
 
#11
I am sure the RAF would welcome the return of the Naval Air Branch, then the seventy one year experiment could be ended. Don't know what they will do with all those oiks in green though :lol: :p
 
#12
I remember being 'laughed out of court' (no surprise there I hear you say) when I opined that as the junior Service, the RAF should gracefully give way and surrender their assets to the Royal Navy and the Army.

My 'plan' was:

If it hurt, give it the Royal Navy; if it supported, give it to the Army.

Masses of savings, but lots of sad 'crabs' I suppose.

We, the Army, could keep some of their more senior 'staff-trained' officers, who are 'at home' in the corridors of Whitehall.

It will not happen of course.

Happy Christmas to all, even the 'mods', especially to those who are not at home this Christmas.
 
#13
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality.

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO
 
#14
CAARPS said:
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality.

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO
WTF!!!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :x :x :x
 
#15
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality.

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO


I'm sorry but I cannot let a comment like that go unanswered. I am a proud member of the RAF and have been so for 25 years. What's more, I have been flying helicopters for that time; Wessex, Puma and more recently the Merlin. I certainly have not had every Xmas off over the years and have had a fair few leave/stand down periods interrupted because of essential Army tasking. I have always done my job with the view that I am there to support the man on the ground with his rifle, no more and no less. Furthermore, I now instill this attitude in my students, irrespective of branch. I am saddened that a post like this seems to be the norm when Crab bashing, it's not right and not fair to those who are happy and proud to d what the army asks.

Rest assured that those with the purse strings love stuff like this as it makes their job of cutting us all so much easier.
 
#16
WannabeWorker said:
CAARPS said:
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality.

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO
WTF!!!! :x :x :x :x :x :x :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :x :x :x
Fcuk them up their stupid asses...................... Slack as fcuk!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#17
CAARPS said:
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01 [snip]
The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality
Yeah, sure, of course. It has nothing to do with the major effort of making sure everyone due to get home for christmas actually does, does it? :roll:

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. .
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot the RAF consists solely of the AT fleet. So all those R/ISTAR, SH, MRT and CAS crews don't exist do they? :roll:

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO
Y'know, every time I try and tell a civvy the army isn't full of gobby idiots some gobby idiot comes along and contradicts me.
 
#18
DPM_Sheep said:
CAARPS said:
Not that I know anything, however, a friend of mine told me that the troops in Afghan due to go on R&R on the 10, 11 & 12 of December where (suddenly) all brought forward to the 09.

You will never guess why (oh yes you will).

The Crabs are not flying in and out of Theatre on the 24, 25 & 26. Incidentally neither the 31 & 01 [snip]
The Crab management think it is acceptable to suspend AT support to Theatre for 3 days. Absolute quality
Yeah, sure, of course. It has nothing to do with the major effort of making sure everyone due to get home for christmas actually does, does it? :roll:

Forget the fact that the Army will be patrolling Helmand and the Navy will be on the high seas. .
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot the RAF consists solely of the AT fleet. So all those R/ISTAR, SH, MRT and CAS crews don't exist do they? :roll:

The sooner these civilians in grey relinquish any sort of claim to being a military force the better IMHO
Y'know, every time I try and tell a civvy the army isn't full of gobby idiots some gobby idiot comes along and contradicts me.
Simple....................... So why are they not flying on those dates if it is true? Sorry in advance if not true.
 
#19
Crabbair have seen the future; and it consists of MLRS type stuff. The days of lady pilots being woken up in KAF, when TiCs get called, are numbered. Therefore they are looking for new work.
Rather than rely on Eurofighter to provide a reason for being, they want to pinch the Uberpilots of the AAC.
It would be fun to get the views of an AAC pilot about being transferred to Analairways! Is "Low-Level Greville" still around?
 
#20
But at least the RAF know about air power and how to support and sustain aircraft. For instance look at their high Chinook fleet availability. The ac is available when the boys need them. Compare that to the dire ac availability rates for Army Lynx!
 

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