RAF dont want command appointments?

Discussion in 'Staff College and Staff Officers' started by up_periscope, Jul 31, 2008.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. I understand that a 2 year ROS is about to come in for 'in-command' appointments at Wing Cdr and Gp Capt level. As a simple sailor - what's the pressure for this? Are people at this level leaving post command,and if so, why? If not, is it just the RAF being precious? I'm told that this is not just what we in the RN would consider Command, ie establishment/squadron, but also thos who are OC of Admin/Eng/etc wings ....
  2. Bouillabaisse

    Bouillabaisse LE Book Reviewer

    I suspect its because in their command appointments they come into contact with a lot of commercial organisations who offer them exciting jobs outside on completion. I seem to be encountering quite a lot of ex-crabs of that level these days. Far more than ex-Commander/Captain or ex-Colonel.
  3. I get the impression that 'the system' is attempting to treat the symptom rather than the cause again! Too many people have taken their command appointment and then left the Service, so a 2 year ROS has been applied. All this will do is push people out before taking their command and, once established, will encourage more people to leave as soon as they have their Sqn Ldr pension in the bag rather than hang on and then get locked in.

    What would be more interesting (and useful) would be to ask why people are leaving after their command, and the answer is that the prospects for the future are no longer what they once were. Why would people want to do a staff tour or 2 as a Wg Cdr, then do their command and then be told that they have another 2 staff tours to do before they can be promoted again (because it is becoming more and more dead-man's shoes these days)?
  4. Couldn't agree more. My boss is a crab Wg Cdr, done his two years Comd and leaves next month to work for a commercial organisation earning a bucket full of cash.
  5. We've had a few more COs than usual who've now put their cards in, and they're doing very well for themselves in civvy street. No suggestions of time bars yet, but a nice warm feeling for me that Lt Col is more achievable now!
  6. RAF Officers don't 'Command' anyway.....they barely lead. If they do they only 'Command' or 'Lead' its only other Officers or SNCO Aircrew.

    Apart from Rocks who generally are a bit 'odd' but competant.
  7. First time I've ever seen those two words in the same sentence!
  8. Bowmore_Assassin

    Bowmore_Assassin LE Moderator Book Reviewer

    "RAF don't want command appointments?"

    Well, thank fcuk for that. In my experience 99% of them could not command their way out of a wet paper bag if their life depended on it, let alone commanding a group of servicemen or women, RAF or not.

    You know something is wrong when they call all their senior ranks and Warrent Officers by their first names (the same people who go crying to their local senior RAF officer when they are given a good stiff bollocking in true Army style) as well as their RAF clerks of all ranks. What happened to using someones rank ? And just what is it that makes RAF Flight Sgts think they walk on water and are the equivalent of WO2s - ah yes, they are encouraged to think this way by weak leadership who haven't got the moral courage to put people back in their box.

    It does make makes you wonder how the they manage to blag so many of them into so many Joint senior officer posts ? I can only assume its not unit command they want, just the senior posts in MOD... :roll: Perhaps they have extensive int and photo collections on lots of very important people ? :twisted:

    No doubt I'll now get some incommmiiing from the blue jobs that frequent the hallowed pages of ARRSE...oh dear now I'm worried :D .
  9. Congratulations to theloggie for rejuvinating a thread that had died a natural death - largely because it was a non-story - just for a bit of gratuitous crab-bashing :lol:

    Having, as my username suggests, worn pongo khaki as well as crabfat blue, I have no hesitation in saying that the RAF is streets ahead of the Army in man-management terms, and I suspect that is part of the problem. the Army has no wish to join the rest of us in the twenty-first century and so it objects to ideas of 'management' preferring, rather, to talk in terms of 'leadership and command'.

    But because you are all striding imperiously around leading and commanding people without bothering with the tedious business of having to manage them as well, many of them end up leaving or, sadly both for them and for me, in my DCMH clinic.

    Purist pongos may well feel justified in criticising the RAF approach as not being sufficiently autocratic, direct and 'commanding', but actually the RAF manages people a hell of a lot better. An RAF Regt Wg Cdr of my acquaintance summed it up by saying that the RAF see its people as an asset to be grown and developed, whereas the Army just see their people as an asset to be consumed and expended. Go figure. I know who I'd prefer to work for, which is why I hung up the CS95 and wear light blue to work. :wink:
  10. Praise indeed loggie.

    To return the complement may I say that your shelves are stacked really neatly mate, and your POL store is a shining example to the rest of the logistics world. You smell of moth balls though...
  11. KC,
    Obviously a wah. Otherwise you might have worked out that there is a difference between leading Army soldiers towards people firing at them and getting the mechanics to do their job. No doubt they do require different skills and yours certainly needs more management to make sure that Mike and Steve are made to feel valued members of the team without being shouted at. Calling the soldiers Mike and Steve in the infantry just doesn't work if you want them to do their job - but I guess you will never know. Anyway, obviously one of these RAF wahs that we get on ARRSE from time to time. Nice one.
  12. 8 yrs a Capt QARANC. 4 yrs before that TA (1yr x Inf - PWO)

    Wah yourself, chopper :roll:

    No-one in my organisation would recognise the parody you trot out of RAF mgmt/leadership/command, FFS.

    I've done 4 yrs in light blue now and they're a fcuk-sight more disciplined, organised and professional than I ever saw with the Army, whether it was medics, RLC, REME, 9th/12th, RGJ or any of the other outfits I served alongside.

    The fact that the Army seems to struggle with the concept of making people feel 'valued members of the team' probably accounts in large part for the fact that although the Army only makes up 1/6th of my AOR, you muppets make up 1/4th of my patient throughput.

    Go figure!
  13. That's easy to explain: The green jobs work twice as hard and therefore, get twice as fcuked up. QED.
  14. KC,

    Did you not just call everybody in the Army muppets...
  15. It seemed to me to be the mildest and most inoffensive of ripostes to the rabid crab-bashing herein, Professor. :wink:

    Well, LEFTY478, therein lies the problem. Actually, both RAF and RN work every bit as hard as their Army colleagues - they just do so in a different way. And my central point, returning to the OP, is that if they were managed better, instead of just led and commanded, you'd get more out of 'em, they'd hang around longer and be better soldiers.

    I've recently seen the most classic case of temperamental unsuitability I've ever seen:

    Asked to leave in Phase 1: -Nah, stay in son, it'll get better (it didn't)
    Asked to leave in Phase 2: -Nah, stay in son, it'll get better (it didn't)
    Asked to leave when he got to his unit: -Nah, stay in son, it'll get better (it didn't)

    Went on Ops, came home, went AWOL, did weed etc. Did glasshouse time, told he's be admin discharged, but now they're fcuking him about.

    If there are any muppets in the Army, they are the people who've blighted this kid's life for the last 2 years and been more concerned with their retention stats than a teenager's welfare. Let's hope they stand up and admit that it Coroner's court one day - though God forbid it should come to that.

    Bottom line? The Army does need a 'fcuk-about factor' to maintain its culture, ethos and discipline, :roll: but it needs to better recognise when people have been fcuked about too much. Open verdicts in Coroner's courts are a shitty epitaph for anyone, let alone a British soldier. :evil: