Racist and Paramilitary views found on students cadet site

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by X-Inf, Sep 21, 2005.

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  1. X-Inf

    X-Inf War Hero Book Reviewer

    What a naughty bunch this lot are!!! Like the bit at the end about 'socialising' (my bold highlight)

    Source Edinburgh Evening News : http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1972002005

    Racist and paramilitary views found on students' cadet site


    IT is regarded as an ideal stepping stone into the armed forces for those students aiming for a military career.

    Those joining the City of Edinburgh Universities Officer Training Corps (UOTC) are expected to share the strict, unbiased values of the British Army. But that image has been tarnished after extreme racist and paramilitary views and images were posted on a website linked to the UOTC.

    One photo shows a balaclava-clad individual wearing Army fatigues posing with a large gun in front of a Loyalist flag, above a caption reading: "Not that I am a Loyalist..."

    Other cadets are alleged to have posted racist statements on the site regarding Edinburgh University's intake of foreign students.

    One is said to have written that he is tired of "Abdul foreigner" coming to the university seeking changes in tradition and another suggests that overseas students should live as locals do or return to their own countries. Shocked UOTC leaders and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) have now launched investigations to find out who is responsible.

    Edinburgh UOTC Adjutant Major Derek Lawson has insisted that "these attitudes will not be tolerated".

    An MoD spokeswoman said anyone sharing such inflammatory views would be weeded out, and that those responsible for posting such material on the site will be severely disciplined when caught. She said that it was only a matter of time before the mystery students are found.

    Even though the site is unofficial and is not affiliated to the UOTC, access can only be gained to it by signed-up officer cadets. It has now been closed down.

    Any website which did not feature "MoD" in its address, such as this one, was banned by the ministry in April this year.

    Around 100 students a year from Edinburgh, Heriot-Watt and Napier universities volunteer to serve as officer cadets. Each is paid around £80 per weekend and is taught basic infantry skills while wearing Army uniform. Even though the UOTC is not a direct recruitment step into the forces, members will be given assistance to join up if they want to.

    The Edinburgh University Students Association (EUSA) is also launching an investigation into the Corps site.

    Adjutant Major Lawson said that they are treating the allegations "very, very seriously" and want to find out who is responsible. He said that the allegations were extremely distressing.

    "All cadets are given instruction on equal opportunities, and the values and standards of the British Army are explained to them in detail," he added. "This is quite distressing for us, and these attitudes are not tolerated."

    EUSA president Ruth Cameron said the community of the university is "incredibly tolerant".

    She said: "As far as we are aware, there are no problems relating to the operation of extremist groups operating on Edinburgh University campuses. We do everything we can to provide a safe and secure environment for our members to live, study and work in.

    "There are 120 countries represented on our campus. It's an incredibly tolerant community, but requires a respect for race and religious belief.

    "It is our job to ensure that all students are protected from any groups which threaten our culture of tolerance and diversity. Any groups which attempt do so will be prevented from continuing to operate on campus."


    DOZENS of students from Edinburgh's universities sign up to become Army cadets.

    The Universities Officers Training Corp is part of the Territorial Army and consists of 19 contingents based at universities across the UK.

    The City of Edinburgh's UOTC is keen to point out that it is not all about hard physical training. The group's website even boasts that its Edinburgh headquarters, in Colinton Road, has the cheapest bar in the Capital. There are also plenty of opportunities to take part in sport and adventure activities, according to the site.

    However, while there is a lot of emphasis on socialising, the organisation focuses on the Armed Forces training it provides. Training students to be soldiers by learning weapon handling and infantry skills is high on the Corp's agenda.

    Undergraduates, male and female, are welcome to join, but most do not sign up to the forces after graduating.
  2. To be honest I'm not sure I see the problem, for the following reasons:

    If the site was not official, and is a private site, then it is not covered by the requirement to use a .mod.uk domain. Decisions on who to allow to have membership of a private site is surely a matter for the site owner, and not the MOD. The membership of private sites, communities or anything else by members of the UOTC is not a matter for the MOD to become involved with.

    People are free to do what they want in their own time, and are free to hold opinions and express these opinions. The only possible exception to this would be when the expression of opinion would fail the Service Test.

    And? There is nothing offensive about the first picture/statement (the only one which is reported to be substantiated). The rest is allegation.

    I am tired of living in a country where people are persecuted for expressing their opinions on matters which relate to race. There is a stark difference between making statements of opinion which use generalisations based upon race and being deliberately racially offensive.

    I'll give you an example. I was mugged three times as a kid, always on my way home from school. Each occasion it was by a black male or group of black males, always at bus-stops, and always after dark. Consequently I have learnt to be more attentive who is nearby when I am at bus-stops, and when out after dark. I am also more wary of young black men when I am out in that area after dark. I am not so bothered about young white or asian men, because I have never experienced a problem with them, nor does my discrimination towards young black males apply under other circumstances. Now, this is dictionary definition racial discrimination, but to my mind it is perfectly logical and reasonable. It is discrimination based on experience, and completely difference from discrimination based on prejudice, which would be totally wrong.

    Expression of opinion is always perfectly valid, because it is an expression of that persons thoughts, one of the things which we go to great lengths to protect in societies far geographically removed from our own. If the author of the alledged 'racist' remarks was posting on a private website, and was not claiming to represent the views of the MOD, can someone please explain to me what that person has done wrong?

    Edited for poor speeling!
  3. Cheers Fordingly. The tone of it is quite unpleasant, but even then I don't think you'd find much difficulty in identifying a large percentage of the population (albeit a minority [sic]) who would nontheless agree with the sentiment.
  4. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    And that would be different for a British or other national living in a Muslim country how exactly?
  5. It wouldn't. If I were living in a Muslim country, I would be happy to observe and respect their culture, for example, not drinking alcohol, not smoking in public during Ramadan etc. It's not a drama, and while I can only speak for myself, I would like to think that others would also be keen to observe local traditions and respect sensitivities.

    I do see a lot of young people in my local area (both where I live now and where I lived previously), however, who get mighty fobbed off with the continuous influx of 'outsiders'. The perception, which local and national government do nothing to assuage, is that all these 'outsiders' are taking over jobs, council housing, social security etc etc, and leaving less for the indigenous locals. It wouldn't be such a problem if local people felt they had a voice, but the PC-ness of local and national government very effectively denigrates their legitimate concerns. I have no doubt that this is the root cause of serious bouts of local racial tension.
  6. The press once again have fanned the flames turning trivia into a (non) story.

    They have forgotten one important fact:

    Students are all *******!

    I should know. I was one once.
  7. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    A lot of it is whipped up. Inidgenous (white) people get better jobs and move out of areas to more prosperous ones. The vacancies are back-filled by immigrants who are prepapred to do the jobs the locals aren't any more (like cleaners, bin men etc) and live in the houses the locals left. The only ones left, and the vocal majority of the "they're taking our jobs" lot are the ones who won't get their fat and lazy ill-educated arrses off the dole in the first place.

    As for the "when in Rome" principle, however, I do have an issue when being sensitive to cultural issues means that we can fly the EU flag over town halls, celebrate every form of cultural diversity under the sun, but flying the Union Flag or Flag of St George is banned because it might upset the non-British people who live here. What grips me more than anything is that it isn't the immigrant comunities that object but the leftie-PC brigade. Personally, if I were from an immigrant community I'd be more offended at some white liberal middle-class tw@t telling me what I should or shouldn't find offensive and speaking in my name than I ever would at seeing the flag of the nation I live in flying over a civic building.
  8. ere,ere !!
  9. Just kids having a laugh. I've seen(and done)a lot worse.
    Typical media cnuts.
  10. woopert - I agree with all of that.