RAChD Convergence

Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by Purple_Flash, May 19, 2004.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. A Good Thing, Handled Badly

  2. A Good Thing, Handled Well

  3. A Bad Thing, Handled Well

    0 vote(s)
  4. A Bad Thing, Handled Badly

  5. OK, But Done Too Quickly And Without Consultation

  1. Purple_Flash

    Purple_Flash LE Moderator

    I hear anguished screams from some chaplains who had worked hard and kept their noses clean for years only to have suddenly found themselves demoted several places in promotion boards to make way for people against whom they had never had to compete.

    Does anyone

    a) Know what it is all about and how it is supposed to work?
    b) Is it, as more than one disgruntled padre has put it, a redressable change in his Terms and Conditions of Service?
    c) Does anyone know what is going on at the Puzzle Palace?

    There seems to be a great reluctance to talk about the whole business or indeed to commit anything to paper.
  2. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Convergence: Explain please!
  3. should have added 'dont know what you mean' to your poll.
  4. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Exactly, I don't know.

    Bit like 80% of the punters on this site!
  5. Purple_Flash

    Purple_Flash LE Moderator

    Convergence: A brief history, just to show that I was one of the two I think who did not fall asleep during the AG's roadshow...

    Since just after the Great War, the RAChD formed into two seperate chains of command. In everyday language, this meant that all the churches, less for the RC's came under one chain of command with people doing the same sort of duties and being graded against each other for promotion. RC's were reported on by their own chain of command and did different duties, i.e. almost no regimental duty as they tended to be based at brigade headquarters and higher formations. Thus the RC's do not have the same regimental experience as the other chaps and could not be considered for promotion to Col. Now they are being "converged", i.e. brought under the single chain of command and suddenly promoted left, right and centre to supervise chaplains of all denominations in jobs that they often have no experience of.

    New RC chaplains are now doing regimental duties and they will, in time, grow up with a common experience and the ability to be graded justly with their peers.

    The howls of anguish that I hear at the mo are regarding people who knew when they might expect promotion and have now been told that they are being passed over so that RC's of equivalent service time but not similar service experience can take jobs that they have never been considered for before. The impression that I get is that people would have no problem with Boards if the people they are suddenly being graded against had done the graft at regimental duties, sitting in squalid regimental locations in the Balkans etc rather than enjoying chilled Chablis with the General at HQ, or those, at least, were the terms that it was put to me in.
  6. Ventress

    Ventress LE Moderator

    Why didnt you say!
  7. There are going to be definite problems here - as far as I can see convergence is unworkable, because the RC's won't be able to fulfil the rolw of Garrison Chaplain, as they won't be able to minister to those who aren't RC, (Unless the pope changes his mind), and so will never truly be converged! Also without the experience of regimental duties they are being unfairly promoted, when there are more experinced and able chaplains being passed over. Let's have the best man/woman for the job and not this politically correct tweaking of the Department!!

    PS: Glad to see ARRSE is up and running again! :D
  8. Sorry to say it, but organised religion is full of so much sh1te that it beggars belief!

    If a disciplined force like HM Forces can’t even get their act together, is it any wonder that the rest of the world is in so much disarray over religion?

    Never understood this RC / C of E / Proddy thing myself, same God, same Jesus, same Mary, just slightly differing views as to their roles.

    You should be ashamed of yourselves, if you lot can't sort it out as our "moral guardians", how the (deliberately not using the f word on this forum) flip should anyone else be expected to? I wonder if the carpenter dude had this crap in mind when he was knocking around the middle east all those years ago? I very much doubt it.

    You will notice my disdain by my avatar. I have it on good authority that I am as authorised to dictate to the world as much as anyone else is.
  9. Those of us who call on the Dark Forces and Lucifer as the Light Bringer would sympathise with your dilemma and remind you that sympathy is only found in one place"in the dictionary between shit and syphillis""Atoh Malkuth ve Geburah ve Gedullah le Olaham"
  10. Problem is the person who had the bright idea of convergence was not prepared to take anyone's advice on what a disaster it would be and pushed it through with no regard to anyone elses opinion. I only hope someone in MOD Chaps will have the sense to try and undo the tangle - but somehow I doubt it! :cry:
  11. Purple_Flash

    Purple_Flash LE Moderator

    What? And admit that it made a mistake? That's not the army way... look at Junior Leaders; Mag to Grid them. realise you've made a terrible mistake and reinvent the wheel at Harrogate at enormous cost and whatever you do, remember they are "Army Foundation College Students" not Junior Leaders, because if we got rid of them, it must have been the right decision ergo, they no longer exist. Except that they do but we've had to call them something else in order to save face.

    Anyway, Convergence is not over by a long way; the last briefing I was at from a certain 2* recently retired from the Puzzle Palace at Upavon was that this was also to get the RAChD ready to accept its first Imams. I just hope that whoever is appointed does not refuse to deploy to sandy places for theological reasons!
  12. "Can I have a big 'Amen' to that, Brothers and Sistahz?"

    James Brown 8:10
  13. Well things can be side-tracked, and chaplains promoted for merit and not for their denomination. :twisted:

    The real trouble is that the RC's can't converge without the pope's say so, and as they regard themselves as the one true church 'pigs flying' and 'blue moons' come to mind!!
  14. I have heard that too, and it's because of the growing number (100+) of Muslims in the army

    Another thing is that with convergence 3 out of the 7 CF1's (Full Colonels) are now Catholic. Is the time coming for a Chaplain General who will be Roman Catholic.

    The problem is there is not much the ordinary Chaplains can do about it; it is something the army itself needs to have a say in. (From what I've heard there are quite a few who have heard about convergence and are not too happy about it - let's hope they try to redress this imbalance of denomminations being promoted for the sake of convergence being pushed forward as quickly as possible.
  15. Purple_Flash

    Purple_Flash LE Moderator

    3 out of 7? 42% of the full colonels! That sounds a tad disprortionate? I thought that the stats said that something of the order of 14% of the army were RC... yet they have 3 x 14% of the senior posts, a veritable takeover. No one better tell Mr Paisley or the R Irish will have mass resignations! ;-)