Rabbis call for the removal of Catholic church at Auschwitz.

No, far from it. If they found God and wanted to be closer to God, they'd more than likely wind up in Heaven. Hell is for those who want to be distant from God and reject Him.
Since this thread has already disappeared down the plughole of religious discussion, a question for you.

The heathen savages out in the middle of Africa/Asia/America would not have known about catholicism for thousands of years until some missionary turned up. What happened to the souls of all those people who died before they could accept your 'true' religion?
 
No, far from it. If they found God and wanted to be closer to God, they'd more than likely wind up in Heaven. Hell is for those who want to be distant from God and reject Him.
Would you care to inform the 1.08 billion Hindus and the 1.6 billion Moslems that they are wrong and they are going to hell. Be careful how you do it though, you could start a war!
 
Since this thread has already disappeared down the plughole of religious discussion, a question for you.

The heathen savages out in the middle of Africa/Asia/America would not have known about catholicism for thousands of years until some missionary turned up. What happened to the souls of all those people who died before they could accept your 'true' religion?
They'd have some notion or belief in God, however primitive, and they generally would have a sense of what's sacred. This is intrinsic to all cultures, and our predisposition to ask the big profound questions about reality and seek the creator (whatever that might be) seems pretty inescapable. My money would be on them getting to Heaven - they might even have an easier tine getting there, without the baggage modern society loads us with.
 
Would you care to inform the 1.08 billion Hindus and the 1.6 billion Moslems that they are wrong and they are going to hell. Be careful how you do it though, you could start a war!
How did you get from my reply to this?

You are aware they also believe in, and worship the divine, aren't you.
 
They'd have some notion or belief in God, however primitive, and they generally would have a sense of what's sacred. This is intrinsic to all cultures, and oyr predisposition to ask the big profound questions about reality and seek the creator (whatever that might be) seems pretty inescapable. My money would be on them getting to Heaven - they might even have an easier tine getting there, without the baggage modern society loads us with.
Fair enough. The second, and rather more important question - if they've got a better chance of getting into heaven than us, surely sending missionaries increases the chance of them going to hell? A bit of a mean trick that one.
 
They'd have some notion or belief in God, however primitive, and they generally would have a sense of what's sacred. This is intrinsic to all cultures, and oyr predisposition to ask the big profound questions about reality and seek the creator (whatever that might be) seems pretty inescapable. My money would be on them getting to Heaven - they might even have an easier tine getting there, without the baggage modern society loads us with.
What about the ones who ate the missionary?
 

Cochise55

Swinger
Would you care to inform the 1.08 billion Hindus and the 1.6 billion Moslems that they are wrong and they are going to hell. Be careful how you do it though, you could start a war!
Jesus Christ, of course, says the most important thing is for us to love and help each other. 99% of so-called Christians throughout history ignore this. Is it God who is to blame or humans who can't follow one simple piece of advice?

I don't like religion , but I'm not sure that is the same as thinking there can't be some sort of God.

Sorry, I'm not clever enough to start musing on things like that, especially since at my age I can hardly remember what i did last Tuesday. I'll go back to my bottle of JD.
 
Fair enough. The second, and rather more important question - if they've got a better chance of getting into heaven than us, surely sending missionaries increases the chance of them going to hell? A bit of a mean trick that one.
Why would that be? Missionaries don't just teach our expression of faith. They bring healthcare, education and engineering skills to communities to improve the quality of life. I can't see anyone landing up in Hell without outright rejecting God.

What about the ones who ate the missionary?
What about them?
 
People find reason to get offended at everything these days. What else is new?
Quite. However 500 years ago the Pope would have paid an army to go and give Mo the good news. Maybe Catholics are getting soft!
 
Understood.
But he's definitely not the only path to salvation, right?
Pope John Paul II stated that Jewish people who comply with the Torah and the laws of the Jewish faith will achieve salvation. His opinion is definitive of the Catholic point of view.
 
Understood.
But he's definitely not the only path to salvation, right?
Pope John Paul II stated that Jewish people who comply with the Torah and the laws of the Jewish faith will achieve salvation. His opinion is definitive of the Catholic point of view.
To give a more comprehensive answer, spirituality, agnosticism, New Age beliefs, etc. cannot lead to salvation, since they provide no objective principles, no guidance and no challenge to subjective opinion.
Okay, it's nice that many people believe in a 'higher force', the healing power of crystals, angels, nature spirits, superstitions and whatnot, but what use is any of that? How would you know whether those beliefs were even healthy, or were instead stunting the development of your character? What if those beliefs led to people doing stupid things that would damn them?

I'll give you an example - Mate of mine was a hardcore member of a druid circle. He got so wrapped up in Wicca and superstition that he came to believe he's a victim of 'spiritual warfare'. His life and psychological health were completely fucked as a result of that conviction, and he lost everything.

Yes, it could very well be, all things tried and considered, that ultimately Christ is the only path to salvation.
 
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Yes, it could very well be, all things tried and considered, that ultimately Christ is the only path to salvation.
That contradicts what David BOC just quoted of Pope John Paul II.
Does this mean that there is no definitive answer, rather it is a matter of opinion?

Have you reached the stage of being after (to use your words) "all things tried and considered"?
Is your statement "ultimately Christ is the only path to salvation" based on the first hand knowledge you have as a result of achieving that stage?

Has any other human being apart from yourself reached that stage?
 
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Grownup_Rafbrat

LE
Book Reviewer
I've heard it argued that the post-WW1 turmoil, coupled with the aggressively secular hedonism of the Wiemar Republic, played an important role in undermining the concept of human dignity and human worth in German society and made a de-sensitised population more susceptible to extreme political solutions requiring them to commit atrocities for the perceived greater good.

With the possible exception of the Taiping Rebellion, I can't think of any religion which has served up the levels of murderous havoc in a comparable timescale achieved by secular philosophies in the twentieth century.
However, the 'anti-religious' regimes have killed many millions, from Franco, a rank amateur, through Ataturk and Pol Pot, to Stalin and Mao, that's in the region of 100 million people and their descendants removed from humanity for being farmers, or office workers, or Christians, or annoying the neighbours who denounced them, or questioning the Party or one of its officials.
 
That contradicts what David BOC just quoted of Pope John Paul II.
Does this mean that there is no definitive answer, rather it is a matter of opinion?
No, it really doesn't. To Christians, the Torah and the Jewish faith are a longer and more burdensome way to become closer to God. You could be saved through the Jewish faith, but it's going to be way harder. How many people are capable of meticulously following the Torah? How many people outside the Jewish faith are intellectual enough to understand how the laws could help them?
Christ came to save people, like myself, who couldn't possibly live up to those standards.

What I'm getting at is that we cannot stop humanity seeking a 'higher force', a spiritual dimension, a higher meaning to their existence. They'll seek, but they won't find until they discover some tangible connection between the divine and their material reality - for us, that connection is a human incarnation of God. In other cultures, that connection is a vivid DMT trip. Some people might even be doing it through transcendental meditation, which I found extremely difficult.
 

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