Discussion in 'Professionally Qualified, RAMC and QARANC' started by Mr_d, Oct 30, 2009.

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  1. I was chatting with an american medic a few days ago and we had an interesting chat about quikclot. He told me that the medics at his unit don't use granual QuikClot because the hemostatic agents in the granuales sometimes don't clot the wound correctly to stop the hemorrhaging limb. He also told he that it has sometimes caused more damage to the casualty. That's there personal experience out on operations.

    He told me they prefer to use hemostatic combat gauze which they place deep inside the wound or a hemcon pad.

    Has anyone else used QuikClot out on the ground and found it to be totally crap? Thoughts and opinions.
  2. I'm sure this subject was done ages ago. Can't be arrsed looking for it though.

  3. As with most medical products they are very effective if used properly. Quikclot is no exception. It has been very useful in treating trauma but medics need to ensure that they don't use it carelessly. Needless to say, this is part of their training!

    As with all treatments, they need to be monitored and reviewed. New products become available and treatments may change. The gauze that your American colleague was talking about was possibly CELOX. It is not yet licensed/kite-marked for use in this country although the company is seeking this.

    There is growing support for the use of CELOX but until it is approved, use will remain limited.

    In the meantime the existing products are helping troops and will continue to be used.

  4. I've been issued this stuff in the past (and still have some packs) for my personal trauma pack. My training consisted of: 'bung it in'.

    I'm on standby for Kabul and have a load of kit hanging about which I have just been checking.

    Suppose we are working on the basis that something is better than nothing if one of an oppo's main bits comes flying off. Am I likely to make matters worse?

    By the way I'm a cameraman not a combatant.
  5. Isn't QuikClot the stuff that effectively cauterises the wound on contact with blood?

    I was under the impression that this is used not so much in theatre now, and that we're using something else now? Less traumatic to the patient.

    (My info comes from briefs not experience.)
  6. as a cmt still in training weve been told about quik clot and shown a few vids on it but not much else, weve been taught more on hemcom, tourniquets and first field dressings, one of the reasons they gave us for scaling back on quikclot was that its an irritant and can do some damage to u or the casulty specially if it gets into eyes/mouth/nose etc, and being in windy condtions isnt ideal,
  7. It's not being used because in the wrong hands it can be dangerous.
  8. That's what I was afraid of - I'm bound to bugger it up but what is the worst that can happen? Seriously.
  9. 3rd degree burns?
  10. I wonder what it tates like? - presumably it's ok to dip your tongue in -if you do it quickly.

    In case of need: is a searing burn worse than a spurting femoral artery though? (he said, demonstrating his dangerously out of date grasp of trauma first aid)
  11. AIUI can also suffocate as it solidifies on contact with fluid ( eg. saliva )

    As such, best not licked, really.
  12. Not to insult the old and bold,

    From the batls cse quick clot is only to be used on junctional areas of the body. Other than that Hemcon is to be used. As Jez said about Celox there is growing support and until it is approved for use, we are not going to see it on general issue.

    Quick clot works by adsorbing water from the blood, concentrating the clotting factors, activating platelets which aides in coagulation, this generates the exothermic reaction (Heat) upto around 50 odd degress. Dont get it on mucus membranes, in your eyes or eat it. The heat build up can be very uncomfortable for the patient.

    The newer version of quick clot comes prehydrated so it doesnt heat up so much, but as a result the clotting speed is reduced. also comes in a sponge form QC ACS, and a combat gauze bandage issued to the yanks.

    if you yank friend says the granules dont clot the wound correctly thats probably because they're overfilling the wound with the quick clot, as you dont need to use the entire pouch. i've found on the occasions i've used it it works very well.
  13. Bigeye

    I may be missing something here, but the implication is that you are not a trained medic. If you have not been trained how to use Quikclot then don't. Simple as that.

  14. Celox gauze is replacing both. Training package is under development. It has, or is in the final stages of getting its licence.
    If you've not been shown how to use kit ASK and find out. Celox has a licence in powder form, but not when in a gauze. This has taken a while to sort.

    Very good kit, works well and is more bulky than Combat gauze therefore better to pack into a wound. Plus its british so supplies should be easier to establish.
  15. It's not really as simple as that at all.
    The problem is that we don't operate in large sections; there may be 2 or maximum 3 people in our crew - and could be in the middle of Fukawi - with no official medics. And we have the same munitions hazards to deal with as everybody else. (Although it's not always directed at us.)

    I'mnot fully trained: I did a week long trauma course a 18 months ago and before that a number of first aid courses (one very 2 years or so) We've covered the use of Quikclot, albeit briefly. However frankly if it's a question of a colleague, with a severe vascular interruption*, bleeding out or not and the tourniquet not doing anything - I would probably risk it.

    This is all probably irrelevant as shelf life aside, it probably makes sense to trade in the original Quikclot for the newer 'cooler' version.

    P.S I have another refresher before I leave - so I'll see what the current perceived wisdom on the subject is then.

    *I made that phrase up.