Quick, make up a reason !!

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#1
This will probably only be of interest to a certain portion of the Arrse readership, so if it's not 'your thing' please feel free to move on to another thread.

There seems always to be a group in the government of any nation who will clutch at the most feeble excuse for keeping people at arms length from their rights.
Now that section of the US is blocking the re-importation of US made classic rifles for collectors and sportsmen alike.

Theodore Roosevelt will be spinning like a drill bit.

Click here.
 
#2
That was a bit careless - leaving all those hundreds of thousands of weapons laying around !!
 
#3
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm betting that the people in the US selling Garands for $600-$1000 apiece might also have a vested interest in the market not being flooded by Korean surplus at $170-220 a pop.

It's not as if buying a rifle is exactly hard work, and the gun control people tend to be more concerned with handguns and SMGs. Lets face facts here. They're 60-70 years old and, to use the Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels phrase, they're a bit lacking in criminal credibility.

Manufacturers of new rifles might have something to say too. Forget politics for a moment and just consider the laws of supply and demand. We're talking about 100,000 well made, well regarded classic rifles suddenly appearing for peanuts.
 
#4
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I'm betting that the people in the US selling Garands for $600-$1000 apiece might also have a vested interest in the market not being flooded by Korean surplus at $170-220 a pop.

It's not as if buying a rifle is exactly hard work, and the gun control people tend to be more concerned with handguns and SMGs. Lets face facts here. They're 60-70 years old and, to use the Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels phrase, they're a bit lacking in criminal credibility.

Manufacturers of new rifles might have something to say too. Forget politics for a moment and just consider the laws of supply and demand. We're talking about 100,000 well made, well regarded classic rifles suddenly appearing for peanuts.
Quite agree. It`s more about protecting the Domestic market more than anything else.
Look into importing a European built motor vehicle onto the North American continent and see what they say.....
Generally a straight forward No F`ing Chance
 
#5
FFS, these are a drop in the ocean compared to the number of gats in the US.

It's a bit like when US Immigration used to (or possibly still do) block people with drug convictions or who are hermers from entering the US - they've got millions of both so why worry bout an extra one or two?
 
#6
I get all my Garands, Springfields and 1917 Enfields from the Civilian Marksmanship Program CMP Home -you know you are getting something safe.

Their storefront in Anniston AL is fantastic and once you get to know them they will let you browse to pick the one you like best.
 
#7
I get all my Garands, Springfields and 1917 Enfields from the Civilian Marksmanship Program CMP Home -you know you are getting something safe.

Their storefront in Anniston AL is fantastic and once you get to know them they will let you browse to pick the one you like best.
I was in Anniston a couple of times for training at the Center for Domestic Preparedness. If I had only known...


By the way, great training, nice quarters, great food, and a nice little pub open at the end of the training day. Only downside was the daily blood draws were between 0545 and 0615 when I was there.
 

Travelgall

LE
Kit Reviewer
#8
Nice weapon, fired it in Vietnam. Very easy to tell when you've run out of rounds if you can't count up to 8. I understand the Germans found it just as easy.

Is there anything the US isn't protectionist about at the moment? Jones Act, Steel Import Duties, Presidential Helicopters & Air-Refuelers, Truck Drivers, Exit Taxes (Heroes Earning Assistance and Relief Tax Act 2008), Patriot Employer Act, Waxman-Markey et all. Now they are even being protectionist about their own damn rifles.
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#9
Travelgall said:
Nice weapon, fired it in Vietnam. Very easy to tell when you've run out of rounds if you can't count up to 8. I understand the Germans found it just as easy.
Then your understanding is seriously flawed.
 
#10
A simple case of protectionism, Garands and 1917s at dumping prices does nothing for the market value of similar weapons and I suspect the Pentagon is spoon feeding that market, they've had a large turnover of firearms of late. Here in Europe I wouldn't expect to pay more than 200 Euros for a good example of any WW1 or WW2 weapon. I learned to shoot with an M3 carbine of ex korean vintage and the Garand is also a nice cheap gun for driven game shoots, the expended clips are however a pain in the arse to find in dark German woodlands.

I think this thread belongs under shooting sports.
 
#11
Here in Europe I wouldn't expect to pay more than 200 Euros for a good example of any WW1 or WW2 weapon.
That might be the case in Germany, but it certainly isn't here in Denmark. Garands go for about 5000 DKR (about 700 Euros) and up, Enfields are hovering about the 2500-3500 DKR mark, and M1 Carbines are going for 3000-4000 DKR. About the only WW2 rifles that are still cheap are Mosins and K98s (either RCs or sportered leave-behinds).
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
#12
cernunnos said:
A simple case of protectionism, Garands and 1917s at dumping prices does nothing for the market value of similar weapons and I suspect the Pentagon is spoon feeding that market, they've had a large turnover of firearms of late.
If protectionism really is the case I'd expect them to make an offer to buy the lot for later piecemeal release - more dosh in.

cernunnos said:
Here in Europe I wouldn't expect to pay more than 200 Euros for a good example of any WW1 or WW2 weapon.
I'll disagree on this Cernunnos, have you tried to pick up a decent Model C or even Model D these days ?

cernunnos said:
I learned to shoot with an M3 carbine of ex korean vintage and the Garand is also a nice cheap gun for driven game shoots, the expended clips are however a pain in the arse to find in dark German woodlands.
The clips are the only thing I've against the M1 for hunting, otherwise it's a lively and reasonably accurate item. Have you tried using one of the limited clips ? I believe they're available with blaze orange blocks.

cernunnos said:
I think this thread belongs under shooting sports.
I was going to post it in there but imagined the comments that it had nothing to do with the UK and was political so belonged in the Septic forum.
Damned if you do & damned if you don't.
 
#13
If protectionism really is the case I'd expect them to make an offer to buy the lot for later piecemeal release - more dosh in.


I'll disagree on this Cernunnos, have you tried to pick up a decent Model C or even Model D these days ?


The clips are the only thing I've against the M1 for hunting, otherwise it's a lively and reasonably accurate item. Have you tried using one of the limited clips ? I believe they're available with blaze orange blocks.
I use the big boys in German gunshops, just tell Frankonia what you want in writing and tell them what you are prepared to pay for one, then wait.

The limited two shot clips (a legal requirement for self loaders here) I had were bronze green, obviously the manufacturer wanted me to lose them. The full clips are blued. I left a trail of both accross Europe. I've sold the gun since.
 
#14
Nice weapon, fired it in Vietnam. Very easy to tell when you've run out of rounds if you can't count up to 8. I understand the Germans found it just as easy.

Is there anything the US isn't protectionist about at the moment? Jones Act, Steel Import Duties, Presidential Helicopters & Air-Refuelers, Truck Drivers, Exit Taxes (Heroes Earning Assistance and Relief Tax Act 2008), Patriot Employer Act, Waxman-Markey et all. Now they are even being protectionist about their own damn rifles.
Erm...let me think. How about our national security such as from the continuing threat from islamo-fascism? ;-)
 
#15
If protectionism really is the case I'd expect them to make an offer to buy the lot for later piecemeal release - more dosh in.


I'll disagree on this Cernunnos, have you tried to pick up a decent Model C or even Model D these days ?


The clips are the only thing I've against the M1 for hunting, otherwise it's a lively and reasonably accurate item. Have you tried using one of the limited clips ? I believe they're available with blaze orange blocks.


I was going to post it in there but imagined the comments that it had nothing to do with the UK and was political so belonged in the Septic forum.
Damned if you do & damned if you don't.
--

I do feel your pain old fellow. And yes I do have an M-1C and M-1D (being a lefty however, I actually prefer my Springfield "Model 1941 Sniper Rifle"--USMC M1903-A1 with correct 8X Unertl scope), as my long haired CO and comptroller of the currency will painfully attest.
 
#16
Then your understanding is seriously flawed.
There are numerous anecdotes and no doubt many urban legends from the ETO and PTO of the evil trickery of GIs doing various things to throw off the counting by their enemy. Of course this only worked (if ever) if the GI was relatively alone to allow the cunning enemy to count his rounds. If anyone has ever been in a real hot firefight, while it is possible (and often life saving) to distinguish different calibers, it is very difficult to pick out specific weapons of the same caliber in terms of their individual operating sounds unless the hapless shooter is well and truly separated from his fellow shooters.
 
#17
A simple case of protectionism, Garands and 1917s at dumping prices does nothing for the market value of similar weapons and I suspect the Pentagon is spoon feeding that market, they've had a large turnover of firearms of late. Here in Europe I wouldn't expect to pay more than 200 Euros for a good example of any WW1 or WW2 weapon. I learned to shoot with an M3 carbine of ex korean vintage and the Garand is also a nice cheap gun for driven game shoots, the expended clips are however a pain in the arse to find in dark German woodlands.

I think this thread belongs under shooting sports.
I actually doubt that it involves protectionism. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that the only people who would possibly want something as nasty and evil as a gun are evil rotten nasty people who enjoy causing suffering to both people and animals and therefore the policies of the US government should make it as difficult as possible for such evil people to buy something that they actually might enjoy using. At least until The Chosen One is able to appoint enough Supreme Court Justices to render the rotten stupid antiquated 2nd Amendment to our constitution meaningless. At least in the eyes of Obama, Pelosi and Company.

Government policies re guns can be really stupid. The absolutely safest way to get anything from one place to another is US Postal Servie Registered Mail. Used by banks, jewelers etc for high value shipments. A few years ago I had a problem with my Colt M1911 and had to send it to Colt in Connecticut for work. After Kennedy was shot by a gun obtained mail order a law was passed that no guns could be sent by mail in order to prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands. Therefore, I could not send the gun to Colt (who are clearly authorized to possess guns) by registerd mail and had to use United Parcel to send it to them. (I should note that Colt fixed the gun for no cost and returned it to me with a few extras of the small pin that had broken, great customer service).

Similar catch 22 thing has recently occurred about cigarettes. Congress passed, and Obama signed a law to make it more difficult to buy cigarettes by mail, ostensibly as children might buy cigarettes by mail order. The law requires that cigarettes only be mailed by Express Mail, the most expensive USPS service. Express Mail cannot be sent to APO of FBO addresses so now it is impossible for the families and friends of soldiers, sailors, marines etc to include ciggies in care packages sent to their loved one in Iraq and Afghanistan. One of the congressman responsible for the bill stated that the ciggies could endanger the health of the servicepersons receiving them. Right! You are surrounded by IED's and being shot at but hat ciggie might kill you.
 
#18
This is how hard it is to get a weapon:

[video=youtube;baPgr_tw79Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
#19
I actually doubt that it involves protectionism. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that the only people who would possibly want something as nasty and evil as a gun are evil rotten nasty people who enjoy causing suffering to both people and animals and therefore the policies of the US government should make it as difficult as possible for such evil people to buy something that they actually might enjoy using. At least until The Chosen One is able to appoint enough Supreme Court Justices to render the rotten stupid antiquated 2nd Amendment to our constitution meaningless. At least in the eyes of Obama, Pelosi and Company.
Really? That's odd...

Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence : Media

The Year of the NRA | Bill Schneider | Travel & Outdoors | NewWest.Net

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a good meme? Far better to stick to a story with plenty of truthiness.
 
#20
If protectionism really is the case I'd expect them to make an offer to buy the lot for later piecemeal release - more dosh in.
It's the US government, not De Beers. Why would you want the government competing with private manufacturers in a market of finite size? You're not a socialist, are you? ;) It's one thing for Uncle Sam to sell off surplus stock. It's another to be going out and selling someone else's.
 
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