Questions on the Browning 9mm’s of the 14 Intelligence Company

It’s hardly grand standing if it’s only used in the CP role.
I’ll leave you and the chip on your shoulder to it.
It's a deviation from standard drills and terminology, and therefroe inherently unsafe, since it introduces the avoidable possibility of ambiguity and misunderstanding.

However kew-ull and transatlantic it may sound. ^~
 
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Poppy

LE
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a history on the women who served in 14 INT during Banner.

It’d be page turner.
there are a couple of personal memoirs I read some years ago, "Sarah Ford" was one, and I think Jackie/Jacqui someone
 

begbie

Old-Salt
It's a deviation from standard drills and terminology, and therefroe inherently unsafe, since it introduces the avoidable possibility of ambiguity and misunderstanding.

Howeve kew-ull and transatlantic it may sound. ^~
Like I said only used in the CP role, so if everyone uses it in the CP role then there’s no misunderstanding, we did a lot of stuff that was different to standard drills.
 

warmonger82

Old-Salt
there are a couple of personal memoirs I read some years ago, "Sarah Ford" was one, and I think Jackie/Jacqui someone

One Up: A Woman in Action with the SAS

Is that the title?
 
we did a lot of stuff that was different to standard drills.
Indeed.

ESSAY COMPETITION TITLE (Open to all comers)
The RMP have long been held in the highest esteem across the Army for their unimpeachable commitment to adhere to only the strictest standards of professionalism in all aspects of their work.
Discuss

:thumleft:
 

begbie

Old-Salt
Indeed.

ESSAY COMPETITION TITLE (Open to all comers)
The RMP have long been held in the highest esteem across the Army for their unimpeachable commitment to adhere to only the strictest standards of professionalism in all aspects of their work.
Discuss

:thumleft:
Show me on the dolly where the nasty RMP touched you.
 
1973 Grand Central Hotel Belfast and I'm one of the Int section photographers; went there in uniform and after ten days they decided they needed me in civvies, (is it any wonder I left)
Three of us shared a BHP which included the BK whose weapon it was; it wasn't until the 1980's that I got to fire one and realised what a bloody awful trigger they had!
Getting back to the OP's question, the guy we dealt with from 14 Int had taken the grips off his BHP...no idea why.
My darkroom was at the back of GCH and the sneaky beaky crowd would walk straight in and knock on the darkroom door for us to clear their weapons; I do recall seeing rather a lot of "baby" Browning's which I've always assumed were personal weapons. I did think the MOD made personal weapons verboten before 1973??
 

CRmeansCeilingReached

ADC
Moderator
You were amazed that they were doing something that they thought would quite likely result in an ND; or you were amazed that they thought it would quite likely result in an ND?

To me if you meant the first it's a fair point, but not so much the second. Obviously NDs happen on all military small arms that have safety catches and drills, because I can't think of one that doesn't (bolt action rifles aside). Even grenades and claymores have safety clips.
I meant that if people aren't trained and confident enough in their own drills to carry it safely made ready, then they shouldn't carry a pistol with one up the spout. Rather than selecting Cowboy Option Number 3 of facking about with the hammer.
 
1973 Grand Central Hotel Belfast and I'm one of the Int section photographers; went there in uniform and after ten days they decided they needed me in civvies, (is it any wonder I left)
Three of us shared a BHP which included the BK whose weapon it was; it wasn't until the 1980's that I got to fire one and realised what a bloody awful trigger they had!
Getting back to the OP's question, the guy we dealt with from 14 Int had taken the grips off his BHP...no idea why.
My darkroom was at the back of GCH and the sneaky beaky crowd would walk straight in and knock on the darkroom door for us to clear their weapons; I do recall seeing rather a lot of "baby" Browning's which I've always assumed were personal weapons. I did think the MOD made personal weapons verboten before 1973??
Baby browning were .22 I recall . Had an old girlfriend in Zimbo who had one under her pillow.
 
I meant that if people aren't trained and confident enough in their own drills to carry it safely made ready, then they shouldn't carry a pistol with one up the spout. Rather than selecting Cowboy Option Number 3 of facking about with the hammer.
Yet, in the absence of any but the most basic training on the weapon, that is what people (I include my young self) did, based on the 'sage advice' of older/ more experienced (yet no better-schooled in the weapon) peers, back-in-the-day.

In truth, after a coupla goes, I found the nervousness that accompanied having a made-ready BHP/ safety catch off, stuffed down the back of my Levis, with the hammer resting on the firing pin massively outweighed the nervousness that went with doing likewise when the thing was simply 'Loaded'

And the more proficient I became with the weapon, the greater was that confidence.

How justified was that confidence, given that I never had a single formal coaching/ training session with the 9mm pistol in the 3 decades after leaving RMAS, remains entirely open to question.

But - I sleep at night, untroubled by doubt.
 

Helm

MIA
Moderator
Book Reviewer
I think you'll find that covert carry in 8 Bde, was accomplished by wrapping the pistol and its owner inside a brush painted blue and cream SWB landrover, thereby rendering them invisible to the searching eyes of the dastardly foe.
I thought that might still be on the super duper secret list along with the hand painted Bedford
 
The originator of carry conditions was Jeff Cooper, a WW2 era US Marine who became a self defence and firearms instructor.

"In your own time, go on".

Jeff "The Colonel" Cooper. Responsible for a more practical approach to weapons training, particularly pistols for offensive defensive use. He kicked it all off in the late 50's with competition shoots (the leather slap shoots) which bought about the trend for the modification of pistols into more accurate, useable items. The competitions also introduced some effective ways of holding, and using the pistol, such as the more stable Weaver Stance developed by jack Weaver a deputy (I think, google will find him if you are interested.

Cooper was also involved in the establishing of the International Practical Shooting Confederation that had various national bodies affiliated under it. In the UK the organisation was the UK Practical Shooting Association - indeed, the Colonel came over to the UK back in 1975, or 1976, to launch the organisation in London inviting along several UK police hobby shooters at the time.

Cooper was also responsible for the establishment of the first, world class, dedicated firearms training centre running courses for civilians, military, and police. The place still exists, still runs courses and is allegedly still pretty good.....though I would not go there as there are nowadays better courses elsewhere. Though I might be tempted with the Rifle Course: Precision Rifle 7.

 
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One Up: A Woman in Action with the SAS

Is that the title?
Two books written by women about their time in 14 Int/The Det.
One by a WREN Helicopter mechanic who passed the course and served with the unit.

51Y3NWYA6WL._SX307_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg


One by a WRAC attached to the Royal Signals before she joined the Det.

51E8MVRJ2ML._SY291_BO1,204,203,200_QL40_ML2_.jpg


A Rupert who was from a Jock Regiment wrote the first book about the Det. Most of it is about his training and includes the women on his course. All available on Amazon.

61ZPjsO0OZL.jpg
 

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