Questions on the Browning 9mm’s of the 14 Intelligence Company

CC_TA

LE
In a slight digression and in re missing fingers. One wonders how many left index fingers fell prey to the muzzle of the MP5K...
I know of a couple of selector levers that were extended in length for lads (from them) that were missing parts of their thumbs. We were never told how thumbs were shortened but it was an easy enough modification.
There was another bloke we met with stubby index finger after MP5s nibbled him but he wasn't a them, he was just a total belmer.
 
Would you be allowed to carry when you were out and about off duty?
We often carried pistols when 'off-duty', maybe we shouldn't have, but we did.

Also - we often went to places we probably shouldn't whilst on duty.

We left our COP Car in Grosvenor Road RUC Station and headed into town. We were challenged in a shopping centre in Belfast - I had a loaded and 'made-ready' HK53 in the grab-bag with Smoke Grenades and a Trauma Kit and we were each carrying holstered Browning Pistols, and the security guard says "open the bag".

I looked at my Commander who gave me the nod - as I opened the bag the security guard gasped and started to back-step until he saw my Oppo push his MoD90 in his face and says "Security Forces, Armed and On Duty".

We got what we wanted and bugged out pronto.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Condition 1 and 2 was something that was used in RMP CP, but not something I used away from the CP role.
The Brownings we used had the enlarged ambidextrous safety’s, extended side locking levers and Pachmayer grips.
I was first issued the HP at the beginning of 1980 after 3 years with an SMG. I was attached to 247 RMP. There was a heightened IRA threat and we all got one. (There were only half a dozen attached bods. A medic, two Sigs two REME and an RE interpreter.)

Trained by an RMP skilly and on the range once a week, with a ton of ammo, together with the Yanks and their assorted weapons.

Still no mention of 'conditions,' so it must of remained in specialist units and never leaked out. In fact I never came across the term until I read about it on this thread.
 

4(T)

LE
My chap's preferred method (experience based) was simply to carry with empty chamber and, if necessary, rack slide and shoot.

In fact we practised at great length reacting to a contact by racking the slide and going straight into the first shot (ie one hand grip). Its very fast.

You can actually do something similar with the old SMG, if the scenario warrants it. Arm's length and one hand.

Interesting what you can experiment and develop, given unlimited HMG ammo and range time.
 

warmonger82

Old-Salt
My chap's preferred method (experience based) was simply to carry with empty chamber and, if necessary, rack slide and shoot.

In fact we practised at great length reacting to a contact by racking the slide and going straight into the first shot (ie one hand grip). Its very fast.

You can actually do something similar with the old SMG, if the scenario warrants it. Arm's length and one hand.

Interesting what you can experiment and develop, given unlimited HMG ammo and range time.
Hey if it worked for William Fairbairn a hundred or so years ago in Shanghai, it’ll probably work today.

 
My chap's preferred method (experience based) was simply to carry with empty chamber and, if necessary, rack slide and shoot.

In fact we practised at great length reacting to a contact by racking the slide and going straight into the first shot (ie one hand grip). Its very fast.

You can actually do something similar with the old SMG, if the scenario warrants it. Arm's length and one hand.

Interesting what you can experiment and develop, given unlimited HMG ammo and range time.

Empty chamber, as taught in Israel.

 
You'd be very disappointed with the 8 Bde one, it was a shabby, knackered old, dove grey leather jacket that the passenger used to hold on his lap.
I think you'll find that covert carry in 8 Bde, was accomplished by wrapping the pistol and its owner inside a brush painted blue and cream SWB landrover, thereby rendering them invisible to the searching eyes of the dastardly foe.
 

Caecilius

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Kept hearing the urban myth, but never saw anyone who it had happened to.

I've seen it (almost) happen. The bloke took a small slice out of his finger rather than losing it - no permanent harm done, but a fairly close call.
 
Terrorists have a particular disdain for Prison Officers. They were to provide a degree of protection outside work.

One of the blokes who worked for us was RUC Reserve and had a PPK .380 which he used to carry when we went out.
 

FEASG

LE
Kept hearing the urban myth, but never saw anyone who it had happened to.
The 2i/c of 2 RRF during 2003-4 was one. It happened before I was in the Bn. I was told that they named the curved plastic shroud forward of the hand grip after him. But having very limited experience of the weapon myself, have never heard it referred to as such. @Stonker can confirm this as I believe they are mates.
 
I think you'll find that covert carry in 8 Bde, was accomplished by wrapping the pistol and its owner inside a brush painted blue and cream SWB landrover, thereby rendering them invisible to the searching eyes of the dastardly foe.
With tyre pressures painted on the wings above the wheel's, green BCF fire extinguisher with a pretty white crows foot on display, OMD75/OEP220 etc painted on the rear axel, NATO tow hook and of course a green work ticket folder with the old military registration number crossed out and the new NI registration number painted on in Tipex left on the dash board/centre consol.
 
The 2i/c of 2 RRF during 2003-4 was one. It happened before I was in the Bn. I was told that they named the curved plastic shroud forward of the hand grip after him. But having very limited experience of the weapon myself, have never heard it referred to as such. @Stonker can confirm this as I believe they are mates.
First name Martin. Was doing selection for something (poss. XIV Int&Sy, as a Capt? Circa 1991, IIRC)

Too hasty a mag change/ resume firing - OUCH!! Not sure it was actually an amputation, but he fvcking knew about it. Still - not his salutin' hand, so No Big Deal.

Smashing bloke, still serving - out in Africa currently.

I've no idea if the naming thing has any substance.
 
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Indeed they did to the point that as a number or PIRA/INLA crims were doing their time on the mainland they were imprisoned in high security locations only, at one of which my Dad was senior PO jointly responsible for the high sec wing . IIRC there was a specific int led threat to screws on the mainland involved in the High Sec side of things & as security was much tighter in the Province, softer targets were being looked for elsewhere. A quick Google doesn't throw up anything I was sure that at least one mainland based office was murdered by the gunmen.
At the time & while I was on my own Banner tour, my Dad & his oppos were given a briefing by, I assume, Police & security service ppl & issued with PPWs as matter of choice. Most members of the PO in the high security part of the job were ex squaddies so it was an easy in for most of them in agreeing to carry a PPW. These were PPKs in 7.65mm but as my Dad was shooter he asked for permission to carry his own Star 9mm automatic but wasn't allowed to - accountability I reckon.
One unarmed Dog Handler shot by escaping terrorist at White Moors. (Weapon smuggled in?).

Used to read the Gate Lodge POA monthly magazine and the number of armed attacks on off duty NI Prison Officers was staggering.
 
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Awesome! I'm glad her career didn't suffer - and just think of the dits they can both spin!

She must have been a decent Operator, just a sh!t Driver.

I'm glad you are witness to this tale - some still to this day believe it never happened.
The story is that it was a ‘contrived’ crash to act as a come on the suspected terrorists - but yeah, top lass.
 

warmonger82

Old-Salt
The story is that it was a ‘contrived’ crash to act as a come on the suspected terrorists - but yeah, top lass.
I wonder if anyone ever wrote a history on the women who served in 14 INT during Banner.

It’d be page turner.
 
o mention of 'conditions,' so it must of remained in specialist units and never leaked out. In fact I never came across the term until I read about it on this thread.
Not even that,

I'd several colleagues who (with their COP/CONCO soldiers) received extensive training in defensive shooting scenarios with the BHP in NI.

I never heard from them any "Conditions" being mentioned,

Lexicon was as per the manual: "Loaded"/ "Ready"/ "With Safety Catch applied"/ "Unloaded", as late as 1991, in my recollection at least.

If it has leached into the vocabulary in the last couple of decades, it's from Hollywood, Parris Island or Coronado. Most likely the first of those.
 

begbie

Old-Salt
Not even that,

I'd several colleagues who (with their COP/CONCO soldiers) received extensive training in defensive shooting scenarios with the BHP in NI.

I never heard from them any "Conditions" being mentioned,

Lexicon was as per the manual: "Loaded"/ "Ready"/ "With Safety Catch applied"/ "Unloaded", as late as 1991, in my recollection at least.
Condition 1 and 2 was used on my CP course in 1991.
 

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