Question Time Commentary

But if the enemies votes outnumber your votes, the enemy wins.
Undoubtedly - also, regardless of whether they're right and just, quantity has a quality all of it's own etc.
I sincerely hope Leave does have the numbers, I think it has - but it's interesting to see how the other side thinks.

Just pointing out that what we see as moonhowling bias is equally applied to leavers and the 'right wing BBC' etc.
 

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Undoubtedly - also, regardless of whether they're right and just, quantity has a quality all of it's own etc.
I sincerely hope Leave does have the numbers, I think it has - but it's interesting to see how the other side thinks.

Just pointing out that what we see as moonhowling bias is equally applied to leavers and the 'right wing BBC' etc.
Whatever one’s views on bias in the BBC are you be hard pushed not to feel that Colonel Lady Nugee, Blackford and the Rhodean Old girl where allowed to go on and on while Tice, Dale and Kwasi were silenced and interrupted again and again. It was also noticeable that they tried to answer the questions more or less. The other Remain 3 just waffles on with whatever their handlers had told them to say.
 
Just watching Fiona Bruce on antiques roadshow where she’s talking about the ‘Dunkirk Spirit’ - it’s all about WW2 this week.

She’s coming across well. She’s completely fcuked her brand going on QT
 
Whatever one’s views on bias in the BBC are you be hard pushed not to feel that Colonel Lady Nugee, Blackford and the Rhodean Old girl where allowed to go on and on while Tice, Dale and Kwasi were silenced and interrupted again and again. It was also noticeable that they tried to answer the questions more or less. The other Remain 3 just waffles on with whatever their handlers had told them to say.
Oh I agree.
Whilst I missed the prog it's the usual story, caught the highlight of Thornberry's brilliant make a deal and campaign against it.
The fact that The Canary header is about 'millionaire' (boo hiss) Fiona shutting ET down on food banks!
This is the level of dog whistle politics which another article identifies as 'the commentariat' - very well observed imo - but also influential. Yes Arrse is a good counter to it but - in the numbers game, this is what you're up against.
 
So the theory that if you are pissing everyone off you must be doing something right may have some credence!
But the pissing off is about two different things. The remainers are pissed off because they lost the vote, whereas the leavers, the majority, won! I would suggest it's the people who won who have the right to be pissed off.

If you think differently about the democratic process, as it stands stood, in this country, then do please explain.
 
Undoubtedly - also, regardless of whether they're right and just, quantity has a quality all of it's own etc.
I sincerely hope Leave does have the numbers, I think it has - but it's interesting to see how the other side thinks.

Just pointing out that what we see as moonhowling bias is equally applied to leavers and the 'right wing BBC' etc.
In you first para.,I disagree with the bit I've put in *block. Quantity does not necessarily mean quality. However, when it comes to voting, that's the way it should work.

2nd para., leave does have the numbers, 17.4 million in case you've forgotten. It's the less than 650 mps who are trying to overturn what was voted for.

3rd para. I'm not denying there are moon howlers on both sides of the equation, but answer me this honestly. If the vote had been in favour of us remaining in the eu, and mps had tried to reverse it, would you not be "moon howling?" I think the people, who's vote has been ignored for over three years now, have every right to moan at their votes being completely ignored. Do you, and other remainers, really think the 2016 referendum result, and what's happened since, it hasn't been implemented, is a shining example of democracy?

*Thread drift. On some thread someone picked me up for calling it block as opposed to bold. I have admitted elsewhere I'm a dinosaur. I've always known that as block. Much the same as I call small and capital letters, not small case or large case. I'm still a dinosaur, and if you're not happy with the way I express myself...tough titty.

ETA Dozey bars tard that I am. "Quality does not mean quality," What does it mean then thicko?
 
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@Richard Headicus
We're sort of bidding against each other here. You don't seem aware that I'm in the leave camp.
I crunched the numbers elsewhere to about 62% Leave by constituency, 75%Leave by region yet only 25% of MPs are leavers.
The quantity having a quality of its own was, iirc, one of Stalin's referring to German forces being considered better but Russian inferior stuff being more numerous.

My points being that it's worth the occasional look at the other side of the coin just to get an idea of the mindset.

Yes I'd say countering it with facts should work but The Canary article shows how they can switch argument away from Thornberry's ridiculous policy statement to something that some may argue is true (about foodbanks) but can legitimately claim ET was shut down.
Swamp the arena with 2nd grade irrelevant arguments and you can still look like you're in the right but being hushed up.

You'll probably call it the same as I would -obfuscation. And the result is you end up with crowds thinking they're supporters of democracy by claiming they're 'Stopping a coup' - without stopping to consider that there isn't a coup.
 
Ouu la thornbury just sexually assaulted Mr Tice, to the outrage bus....which won't happen but vice versa we'd never hear the fecking end of it.
Lady Nugee is a repeat sex offender: she's done same to Piers, Nigel and more on QT

Douglas Murray explains the hypocrisy

Dress like a hooker, behave like a hooker - expect to be treated like a hooker
 
2nd para., leave does have the numbers, 17.4 million in case you've forgotten. It's the less than 650 mps who are trying to overturn what was voted for.

3rd para. I'm not denying there are moon howlers on both sides of the equation, but answer me this honestly. If the vote had been in favour of us remaining in the eu, and mps had tried to reverse it, would you not be "moon howling?" I think the people, who's vote has been ignored for over three years now, have every right to moan at their votes being completely ignored. Do you, and other remainers, really think the 2016 referendum result, and what's happened since, it hasn't been implemented, is a shining example of democracy?

Good article by Douglas Murray
...When Prime Minister David Cameron and most others across the political establishment said the 2016 vote would be a final, once-in-a-lifetime decision on Britain’s membership of the EU, we believed them. When they said that if we voted to leave, that wish would be respected, we believed them. When they also warned that we would have to leave the EU without a deal if no good deal with Brussels was forthcoming, we believed them. And we voted accordingly.

After the Brexit vote, an Italian-born friend of mine who voted Leave, said: ‘They’ll never let us leave.’

I thought she was wrong. I naively believed that the legacy of Gladstone, Disraeli, Lloyd-George, Churchill and Thatcher was an ineradicable one of democracy based on Parliamentary sovereignty. That this was a country whose MPs recognised that they must represent the people, not use Parliament against the people.
...
Because as this disgraceful last week has shown, Britain has an entire political class that has spent three years trying to do just one thing: trick us, force us, or bore us into having that 2016 vote cancelled.

It grieves me to say it, but May proceeded to embrace the opportunities of Brexit with all the enthusiasm of a horse trotting through the doors of a knacker’s yard.

But even the years of the May government did not show the political class in all its horror. It took this past week for that to be revealed.
...
Johnson, over recent weeks, has shown himself to be perhaps the only leader left in public life in Britain willing to do what the public asked for.

He recognises the central truth — which is that there is no form of Brexit so bad that it would be worse than having no Brexit at all. He is fully aware that not leaving the EU would be the most profound hammer-blow at the heart of our democracy.

I fear we would not overcome the effects for generations.

For failure to deliver Brexit in some form would show that we do not really have a democracy.

Instead, it would send a message to the world that we have a bureaucratic class which decides when it does, and does not, listen to the public’s verdict at the ballot box.
...
The brutal fact is that we are now looking into an abyss.

The abyss is a political one of Parliament’s making. Whether we fall in or pull back will determine whether we protect the soul of this country.

Of course, history tells us that a number of democracies have faced such abysses before. But Britain never has.

However, this is the terrible prospect considering that we are now faced with a Parliament that is wilfully set against its people.

We can cope with many things in this country. We have dealt with lacklustre governments before. Goodness knows, we have endured third-rate Parliamentarians.

But never before have we had to see our votes stolen by a Parliament packed with men and women who first ignore the people and then refuse to make themselves accountable to the people.
.
Sends a message to the world that we have a bureaucratic class which decides what it does; and does not listen to the public’s verdict at the ballot box.

Remain MPs still claim they're preventing uncertainty, protecting democracy, the economy and jobs - economy & currency now tanking due to over three years of MP induced uncertainty. No wonder poll showed 54% of public want no deal and 88% don't trust politicians.

Those Remain MPs still refuse to see the damage they're causing, encouraged by BBC/C4 etc. For them it's a game and voters, businesses etc are irrelevant.

Mr Murray sums up the dangerous behaviour of UK MPs
 
Good article by Douglas Murray


.
Sends a message to the world that we have a bureaucratic class which decides what it does; and does not listen to the public’s verdict at the ballot box.

Remain MPs still claim they're preventing uncertainty, protecting democracy, the economy and jobs - economy & currency now tanking due to over three years of MP induced uncertainty. No wonder poll showed 54% of public want no deal and 88% don't trust politicians.

Those Remain MPs still refuse to see the damage they're causing, encouraged by BBC/C4 etc. For them it's a game and voters, businesses etc are irrelevant.

Mr Murray sums up the dangerous behaviour of UK MPs
Thanks for that. I'm a bit wary of clicking on to web sites, which want me to bombard me with "things which will interest you," so I don't bother.

Unfortunately Douglas Murray is "just" another one of us, as far as remain mps are concerned. There seems to be quite a few people who don't see the abyss he talks about. At this moment in time, ardent remainers seem to be unable to grasp the significance should the 2016 result be reneged on. They talk about the democracy of parliament, yet conveniently forget that the vote 3 years ago was given to us willingly by parliament the previous year, who now want to ignore it because we voted the "wrong" way. I doubt I'll be around to see the consequences, should that happen. When democracy is ignored, that opens the door to a dictatorship. All through history most/all dictators have been removed by only one way, bloodshed. Once someone gets into a position of power, and sees they can keep it, they very rarely give it up willingly. Bang goes getting rid of them five years down the line. I'm not saying this will happen, but it's certainly taking a step in that direction.
 
I watched QT on sunday and might find disagreement, but was actually surprised the usual BBC Audience of half the audience claiming they support Brexit or the conservative party, then start cheering on labour were absent.

Is it just me, but the feeling one gets in the country and even on QT, is the public have had enough of parliament. The mood reminds me of the expenses scandal x 3.
 
But the pissing off is about two different things. The remainers are pissed off because they lost the vote, whereas the leavers, the majority, won! I would suggest it's the people who won who have the right to be pissed off.

If you think differently about the democratic process, as it stands stood, in this country, then do please explain.
I was responding to post #33,495.
 

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