Question for those who've served in French and Brit armies.....

#10
big question, what model of SA80??? A1 or A2? theres a big diff between the two....


and Steyers are tug, aus made F88's even more.......... Aus made F88's with Kiwi made plastic bits complete ****.
 
#12
the A2 is the most accurate std issue 5.56mm rifle used by any army today. end of. pity you cant use it left handed.......
(anyone who says its 'heavy' needs to work on thier PT, weight is good)

the Steyer ( F88 ) was more reliable then the SA80a1, but not as accurate.

the SA80a2 is more reliable and accurate then the Steyer (Austrian or F88 ).

the FAMAS and the Steyer (austrian made) shoot the same and make no difference on the range to target or in use, they are very comperable.

the NZ army wanted the M16A2(with a H-Bar bbl, extra 6oz of metal) but got the Aus-Steyer rammed down its throat by the CER agreement.

the FAMAS can be changed from RH to LH shooter very easily,
you can mod the Steyer for LH shooters, but need the LH bolt-kit,
you just cannot use the SA80 in LH.

all bull-pup rifles are cool!!!, as long as you are in a desert with no opposite handed corners to fire around :shock:

..... and thats why i would choose anything else, apart from a bull-pup, first.
 
#14
Weight is good?

DSTL have said that the target Infantry load should be 26kg. They've said a human should never attempt to fight with more than 40kg. The a average Infantry load in Afghan at the moment is 56kg. The average UK Infantry soldier weighs 71kg.

Weight is terrible. A heavy gat may be good on the ranges, but is **** awful on Ops. Whilst the SA80 A2 is a good rifle it is also a heavy one. Ever held an M4?

The soldier system lethality replacement MUST be lighter.
 
#15
sorry to disagree, but the M4 is far too light IMHO.
(as well as having a too short a barrel to get any decent internal ballistic efficiency out of the 5.56mm)
 
#16
sorry to disagree, but the M4 is far too light IMHO.
What makes you say that? I've been very pleased with our carbines (admittedly C8A1s & not M4s ), and have found them both handy, and easy to shoot with.




Only tried the FAMAS once or twice, and quite liked it. Accurate, and easy to shoot both in both semi and full auto. The bipod is a nice addition too, though not exactly essential. Strip down is a bit of a faff in comparison to our AR type though.



EDIT: On topic comment added.
 
#18
The weight of the SA80 is unavoidable because of the rates of fire it is supposed to offer.

You need a substantial mass of metal to sink the heat into and a large surface area of metal to re-radiate that heat.

It's simple physics and no amount of ministerial magic wand waving and squaddie gizzit listing will ever change that.

Our small arms systems are based firmly on 19th century munitions technology advanced by 20th century metallurgy.

Everything is now made at the limits of that technology and any advance will have to be in another direction, ceramics perhaps....

If you think I'm talking out of my ying-yang now look at the results for lighter modern rifles, for example by googling "M4 overheating."
 
#19
I like a hvy gat, they dont jump around as much and it keeps on target for quicker more accurate repeditive fire (especialy if you use it on auto), and I find I can get more rounds on target a lot quicker than with a light one.

IMHO, a lighter weapon has a larger cone of fire and you have to carry more ammo to be as efficient at the target end, especialy if the light weapon has a stupid short barrel, were a sizable percentage of the powder capacity is being used in nothing more than extra flash and bang thats closer to your ears for a big loss in velocity.
in short, you have to carry more ammo to be as effective. so is there any real gain?

maybe this is just me?

rifle weight is a serious topic deserving of its own thread tbh.
 
#20
I like a hvy gat, they dont jump around as much and it keeps on target for quicker more accurate repeditive fire (especialy if you use it on auto), and I find I can get more rounds on target a lot quicker than with a light one.

IMHO, a lighter weapon has a larger cone of fire and you have to carry more ammo to be as efficient at the target end, especialy if the light weapon has a stupid short barrel, were a sizable percentage of the powder capacity is being used in nothing more than extra flash and bang thats closer to your ears for a big loss in velocity.
in short, you have to carry more ammo to be as effective. so is there any real gain?

maybe this is just me?

rifle weight is a serious topic deserving of its own thread tbh.
I use a heavy barrelled Mauser 98 hunting rifle in .375H&H. It's my favourite pig stopper depite weighing in, with a heavy all weather stock and large Zeis pig glass at over 6.5 kilos. it shoots sweet as a nut even with the heavier loads delivering over 6000 joules and groups at 27mm at 100 meters (only my old BSA in 7x64 beats that).

Impressed by the ability of the round to stop anything a German mate wobbled off to Frankonia with his cheque book and bought a state of the art Blaser R93 with kickstop, composite stock, lightweight barrel and a nice Schmidt & Bender glass. 3.7 kilos for the ghat call it 4.5 fully fitted. Having spent an absolute packet he soon found out that he'd bought a shoulder buster. He was black and blue before he could zero. I had a go and didn't want a second shot. Despite all the technology it simply wasn't heavy enough. A solid heavy stock makes more sense than a hollow one with a damper and a heavy barrel is a must for heavy rounds. Fortunately he found a mug to buy it off him, but at a loss.
 

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