Question for the Bounty Certificate of Efficiency Gurus

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by BuggerAll, Dec 1, 2011.

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  1. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    If a TA soldier is injured in a non-TA accident and as a result did not complete his bounty commitment what is the position with regard to bounty and certificate of efficiency.

    This is a problem relating to TY 10/11.

    My suspicion is that it's tough and that although extensions are available it's now too late. There is however the possibility that he was badly advised at the time and whether that might make a difference now.
  2. He'd have to be able to prove that he was 'advised' badly.
  3. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    How long is that piece of string? 3 options include:

    Was he so injured that he couldn't attend at all? If so, tough.

    Injured but with a light duties chit? Did he do the required amount of days and all MATTs that he was capable of doing, with the remainder excused by chit? If so, good case for arguing for cert of efficiency.

    Injured, chit but failed to attend enough or do MATTs that he was capable of doing? Tough.
  4. One would be led to believe that if said soldier attended all required days/camp /etc but with a medical certificate, excluding him from certain activities he would qualify. As to wrongly advised, he would have to say what the advice given was and by whom. If the advice was don't attend but you'll still get your bounty, that sounds a tad dodgy
  5. ^ ^
    What he said.
  6. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    He didn't attend and did not do his days. He was advised that he shouldn't attend while injured(?) He didn't get down graded - becasue nobody told him that he should. He was away from civ job for the same period and can prove the medical incapacity. Part of the problem is that he transferred units shortly after his accident.
  7. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    He is, to use the vernacular, fcuked.

    If he was so injured that he was unable to attend his usual occupation then he was too injured to train. The injury was not related to TA service, so the TA has no liability.

    Shabby advice or not, he has not met the qualifying criteria due to something his unit are not responsible for. No bounty.
  8. BuggerAll

    BuggerAll LE Reviewer Book Reviewer

    Rather what I thought. (and rightly so - that's what you have insurance for) I don't suppose you know where in regs it states.
  9. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    No idea, but one he needs to be careful of fighting too hard.

    The advice not to attend was wise. How would his employer have reacted if they discovered that he was too injured to go to work but was turning up to his hobby?
  10. At the end of the day, it is up to the CO..!

    If the CO feels that they can certify the individual "efficient" and defend their decision, then they can regardless of what they have done..
  11. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    Not quite that simple. You have to have the required ticks on JPA, namely correct numbers of MTDs (in and out of camp) and MATTs passes (cross referenced to attendance registers during SPS inspections).

    If these are missing, then you do not qualify, but an exception can be made in specific circumstances. In the past I have had to write pleas of mitigation, which go up to Brigade. OK for someone missing a MATT or two because they were injured, not a hope for someone who didn't attend at all.
  12. What he said once again.
    Also for future reference of all: You don't need to be downgraded, just having a biff chit will suffice. Downgrading is a whole different convo. If advised not to attend, do not take that as you will get your bounty. You could however, attend drill nights and be an enabler, same at camp. Also a shortened camp may be available. In this case though , he screwed up .
  13. I'd reckon he was fecked.

    The year my wife died, I had more than enough days (specialist unit), had passed all my MATT's, but still didnt get either my cert of efficiency or my bounty. I had been granted ann extenstion to my training year to do a camp, but for obvious reasons I was about as much use as a chocolate fireguard at the time.
  14. Extract from TA Regs 1978 (Amdt 35) Ch2, Part 1 (Below):

    Extensions for and Exemptions from Training


    a. Extension. When it has not been possible for an officer or soldier to complete his in camp or out of camp training
    by 31 March because of illness or for valid business reasons or, in the case of a recruit, because there has been
    insufficient time allocated for training since his enlistment, the commanding officer or commander CVHQ may
    grant an extension up to 30 April for the training bounty. A further extension up to 30 June may be authorized
    by the Div/Dist or Regional Bde Commander. Orders granting these extensions are to be promulgated by 21
    April and 21 May respectively. Exceptional extensions beyond these limits may be granted on the authority of
    HQLF (Pers TA), to personnel who have been mobilized. Extension is not to be authorized for members of units
    who are required to complete less than 15 days. For UOTC members who are undergraduates (or the equivalent)
    an extension is automatically granted to 31 August.

    CO business really; and I should say that the green light of sympathy would be all a-glow if the injury was attributable to TA Trg / Service but that doesn't automatically give the CofE. It simply allows him time to catch up to qualify for bounty.

    It would seem, however, that the injury was attributable to his civilian work and is probably out of scope. The para above allows the CO some wriggle room and does not focus soley Injuries. A TA Officer or Soldier pinged for jury service for instance would fall in to this category, however, business reasons would not. Doris VSIL at deaths door is definitely out of his control.....but is it in scope ? CO business again and he has to justify it.

    As a rule the CofE should not be issued if there are too many blanks in the criteria.
  15. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    And as the original issue was about TY 10/11, there is no chance of an extension of training period being granted now!

    The CO has some leeway, but the key issue is consistency. If he decides to grant Cert of Efficiency for someone who couldn't attend because of a non-TA injury, why shouldn't he grant it for the bloke who was too busy at work to attend? Or the one with the new baby who really needed to stay at home more?

    The minimum standards to be deemed efficient are laid down - you can be granted extra time to meet them, but you can't avoid them in their entirety and expect to be deemed efficient.