Queens plans for visit to the Republic of Ireland

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HHH

GCM
Well, if you step of the McOutrage Bus for minute, you'd find that it's protocol for visiting Heads of State to pay their respects at the Garden of Remembrance which is what the Queen is doing, just having a quick look and ticking the box. The wreath laying with be at the National War Memorial Gardens in Dublin.

You may now re-board the McBus.


It is protocol for foreign heads of state visiting Ireland to pay their respects at the city centre site, where traditionally they do not lay a wreath but adjust a ribbon before the wreath is placed on a wooden stand.
The trip, from May 17 to 20, will be the first by a British sovereign to the Irish Republic and is hugely significant.


Read more: Croke Park to welcome Queen on historic trip - Republic of Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

It is the symbolism that counts. Would you be on the outrage bus if the Queen was to go to Afghanistan,and attended a ceremony to dead Taliban
 
So the Queen should refuse to visit national memorials in places like Israel, Israel? You do understand the concept of 'politically neutral'?

Yes it they are there to celebrate Irgun and other terrorist organisations who murdered British service personal not to mention their atrocities against the Arabs. She is politically neutral in terms of British politics but still repressents the British people and so I stand by my point that I think it'd be inappropriate for her to visit such a site as I would for anyone who is representing the UK.
 
I live beside the Phoenix Park, next to McKee Barracks. Just 400m down the road, across from the park, there's a small British Armed Services cemetery from the First World War, with new regimental headstones; including a VC winner from the Royal Munster Fusiliers
 
Still HM shouldn't be stepping inside that garden whilst being Head of State of the UK.


Yeah, that's right, lets perpetuate the hate - we wouldn't want to to go away now, would we?
 
I live beside the Phoenix Park, next to McKee Barracks. Just 400m down the road, across from the park, there's a small British Armed Services cemetery from the First World War, with new regimental headstones; including a VC winner from the Royal Munster Fusiliers

Is that the cemetary behind the zoo? We visited it, if its the same cemetary. Houses the graves of those who left the boats in Ireland thinking they were in France, then slaughtered during the Easter Rising. I think the graves were of Welshmen if I remember right.

There was a grave that had the VC, that when explined, the soldier faught in France with the British, was OC of Cork for the IRA against the British during the War of Independence, then was buried as a VC holder....

In the words of our guide, only in Ireland, would you get such a story.
 
Yeah, that's right, lets perpetuate the hate - we wouldn't want to to go away now, would we?

What hate would that be? What about the memories of those murdered by the IRA or the IRB during the uprisings the garden remembers?
 

HHH

GCM
Calm down or you'll get foam on your sash.

I don't wear one,so your logic is that anyone who has a different opinion to you on the Queen's visit,has to be a member of the Orange Order. That is quite a generalisation to make,one I personally don't care for.
 
I don't wear one,so your logic is that anyone who has a different opinion to you on the Queen's visit,has to be a member of the Orange Order. That is quite a generalisation to make,one I personally don't care for.

Yes is a shame to he's had to resort to that. As I've stated on numerous posts on this site I've family from both sides of the divide and despise the hardliners on both sides who use half arsed cultural and political theories and beliefs to justify murdering innocent men, women and children.
 
What hate would that be? What about the memories of those murdered by the IRA or the IRB during the uprisings the garden remembers?

Jesus! Don't you lot ever give it up?

You remind me of the fresh from Derry idiot who raged at us in Pompey back in 83 about not knowing it was it was the Anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne or giving a flying f*ck about it.

'That's whats wrong with youz English, youz lost your culture and it's us Ulstermen who are keeping it alive for youz'

Typical hardcore prod, more British than the British, knew of and spoke about every single death of a Protestant or Englishman over the preceding 400 years as it was recent history and had affected him personally, had his Union jack and red hand tattoo'd on him, even had the obligatory red hand tie, and could actually recite the name of every single officer in King Billys army at the Boyne. He'd assumed I was English from my accent, the minute he learned my surname, refused to speak a word to 'that f**king Teague' from that day onwards.

Irish nationalist or Ulster loyalists in the 6 counties? All as f**king bad as each other, I find the Loyalists more annoying though - you're not British, no one in Britain give a damn about your pretensions to be 'British' or your obsession with some King and a battle fought 300 years ago.
 
Jesus! Don't you lot ever give it up?

You remind me of the fresh from Derry idiot who raged at us in Pompey back in 83 about not knowing it was it was the Anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne or giving a flying f*ck about it.

'That's whats wrong with youz English, youz lost your culture and it's us Ulstermen who are keeping it alive for youz'

Typical hardcore prod, more British than the British, knew of and spoke about every single death of a Protestant or Englishman over the preceding 400 years as it was recent history and had affected him personally, had his Union jack and red hand tattoo'd on him, even had the obligatory red hand tie, and could actually recite the name of every single officer in King Billys army at the Boyne. He'd assumed I was English from my accent, the minute he learned my surname, refused to speak a word to 'that f**king Teague' from that day onwards.

Irish nationalist or Ulster loyalists in the 6 counties? All as f**king bad as each other, I find the Loyalists more annoying though - you're not British, no one in Britain give a damn about your pretensions to be 'British' or your obsession with some King and a battle fought 300 years ago.

Calm down, you'll foam all over your Easter Lilly.

Ps, I couldn't give two fucks about King Billy or the Boyne. Nor do I have a tattoo on my arrse of Ulster or a Red Hand tie.

I think my Passport declaring me British might say something different as to your argument.
 

HHH

GCM
Jesus! Don't you lot ever give it up?

You remind me of the fresh from Derry idiot who raged at us in Pompey back in 83 about not knowing it was it was the Anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne or giving a flying f*ck about it.

'That's whats wrong with youz English, youz lost your culture and it's us Ulstermen who are keeping it alive for youz'

Typical hardcore prod, more British than the British, knew of and spoke about every single death of a Protestant or Englishman over the preceding 400 years as it was recent history and had affected him personally, had his Union jack and red hand tattoo'd on him, even had the obligatory red hand tie, and could actually recite the name of every single officer in King Billy's army at the Boyne. He'd assumed I was English from my accent, the minute he learned my surname, refused to speak a word to 'that f**king Teague' from that day onwards.

Irish nationalist or Ulster loyalists in the 6 counties? All as f**king bad as each other, I find the Loyalists more annoying though - you're not British, no one in Britain give a damn about your pretensions to be 'British' or your obsession with some King and a battle fought 300 years ago.

Couple of points about your post,if he was "Hardcore Prod" as you say he would never have used the word "Teague" as he would not know what it meant,instead he would have used the deorgatrey term "Taig", as the word "Teague" is mainly used by Irish Nationalist to refer to themselves.Your use of the word Teague - Freudian Slip perhaps.@.@

Your point about "King Billy" I think you will find he was King of England,Ireland & Scotland. This Link might explain it better than I could.

William III of England - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

MrDave

War Hero
Any visit by the Queen creates jobs, at least for the painters who have to paint everywere she goes anyway.
 

skid2

LE
Book Reviewer
If the visit has this effect on a forum for supposedly like minded people it's going to be fun watching the Southern Irish reaction. They aren't going to know whether to curtsey or go blind. I do think turning up at a memorial which glorifies the enemy dead might start an entertaining precedent. There's the Mau Mau looking for an apology and it may give the young Royals something to do in the future as they turn up in Iraq, Afghanistan and the way things are going Libya.
 
Oh the outrage. Anyone who fought against British rule was a traitor, end of story, is it?
There are also simple-minded fools who view anyone who fought for Britain or served its administration as traitors whose names should forever be blackened. Fortunately they're in a minority these days.

I've been thinking about this one. If Her Majesty were to forgo visiting the Garden of Remembrance it would imply that while Britain lives with the fact of an independent Ireland, it doesn't really like it - which is not the tone to set on a state visit.
Armed rebellions only get popular support if people see no other practical way of getting their wishes. In the 1920s Britain was not about to accept that Ireland had a right to self-determination because the whole island was "as British as East Finchley", whatever the opinion of the people living there. For that matter, the Mau Mau rebellion in Kenya is viewed very differently on the rest of the planet. That was less an independence movement than the violent result of a policy of forceably removing Africans from their land so that British settlers could have it- the dispossessed or their immediate descendants were trying to force those settlers off that particular land because London always put native concerns far behind the demands of white settlers, if only because those settlers might just declare independence if their demands were not met.
In both cases you might argue about the targets or means used by the rebels because whatever your side, even a "just war" does not justify any means. But in both cases British policy made rebellion inevitable.

What the Queen's visit to both memorials symbolizes to me is that however difficult relations have been in the past, however differently we view our shared history, we have now reached a greater understanding of each other and developed better relations based, not on trying to force the other to accept our version of history, but by showing that both need respect. Frankly, I think the Queen is giving an example that people on both islands and all sides should learn from.
 
Once again wheres the outrage? Three posters have simply stated their objections to the Queen visiting a site that commemorates IRA members. I do not believe the IRA of 1916-21 to be traitors, merely extremely dim people by and large, who believed in fairy tales of a united Ireland (which has never existed) and of a magical Irish culture which stands up as well to scrutiny as the shite the BNP dribble. That they won and then managed to economically retard Ireland for almost four generations is testiment to the nonsense they believed in.
The fact the IRA have been involved in the bombings of British cities both in Ulster and the mainland, as well as the brutal murders of hundreds of soldiers, policemen and civilians as recently as 13 years ago (officially, whilst making no real effort to get hold of their CIRA,RIRA brethen) in an effort to force a union between North and South Ireland that the North doesn't want. That makes them a completely different kettle of fish to the Mau Mau as well you know.
 

Archibald.

Old-Salt
It is pure insanity her going anywere in the South at the minute.There is no question there will be at least one attack during her visit.Would you put your life in the hands of the Republic's security forces.Look at Mountbatten and the Ambasador,blown to bits!
 
There are 2 war memorials that she will visit:
Heritage Ireland: War Memorial Gardens (all Irish people who have died in war (but mainly focused on WW1))
Heritage Ireland: Garden of Remembrance (for those who gave their lives for Irish freedom)

This is a key part of the Peace process!


Still strikes me as looking for trouble her stopping for even a cuppa at such a politically divisive place, when theres plenty of other beautiful places in Ireland for her to go that wouldn't risk offending people.

Once she steps foot in the Republic she will be offending people for crying out loud!


Only my opinion, but **** protocol, she shouldn't be going anywhere near that garden.
I taught the royals were all about protocol, hence one of the reasons there is a brigade minus in London!

arrange for her to visit the Garden of rememberence on the Falls Rd where, 2nd Batt PIRA commemerate those other volunteers who murdered British soldiers during another period of fighting to gain Irish freedom.
Cause the IRA of the 1920s was a very different organisation to the PIRA. The IRA divided in 1921/22 which caused a Civil War and the vast majority became the National Army and subsequently the Irish Defence Forces.

politically neutral British Head of State might want to avoid ticking a box that celebrates those who murdered British/Irish loyalists and which is likely to offend a substantial number of her citizens. I'm sure the Irish would understand that although other Heads of State are happy to visit the site it might not be appropriate for the Queen to do it for the previous reason.
You'd think it was f#cking yesterday, it was 90 years ago!!!

So the Queen should refuse to visit national memorials in places like Israel, Israel? You do understand the concept of 'politically neutral'?
Or maybe she shouldn't go to the Cenatoph this year..... it's only protocol!




She is politically neutral in terms of British politics but still repressents the British people and so I stand by my point that I think it'd be inappropriate for her to visit such a site as I would for anyone who is representing the UK.

If she is politically neutral there is nothing to prevent her!

What about the memories of those murdered by the IRA or the IRB during the uprisings the garden remembers?

Irish nationalist or Ulster loyalists in the 6 counties? All as f**king bad as each other, I find the Loyalists more annoying though - you're not British, no one in Britain give a damn about your pretensions to be 'British' or your obsession with some King and a battle fought 300 years ago.
And only British when it suits them (otherwise they are from Ulster)!


If the visit has this effect on a forum for supposedly like minded people it's going to be fun watching the Southern Irish reaction. They aren't going to know whether to curtsey or go blind. I do think turning up at a memorial which glorifies the enemy dead might start an entertaining precedent. There's the Mau Mau looking for an apology and it may give the young Royals something to do in the future as they turn up in Iraq, Afghanistan and the way things are going Libya.
I'm sure she has probably visited war memorials to German died!

If Her Majesty were to forgo visiting the Garden of Remembrance it would imply that while Britain lives with the fact of an independent Ireland, it doesn't really like it - which is not the tone to set on a state visit.
Armed rebellions only get popular support if people see no other practical way of getting their wishes. In the 1920s Britain was not about to accept that Ireland had a right to self-determination because the whole island was "as British as East Finchley", whatever the opinion of the people living there.
What the Queen's visit to both memorials symbolizes to me is that however difficult relations have been in the past, however differently we view our shared history, we have now reached a greater understanding of each other and developed better relations based, not on trying to force the other to accept our version of history, but by showing that both need respect. Frankly, I think the Queen is giving an example that people on both islands and all sides should learn from.
Extremely well said!


Once again wheres the outrage? Three posters have simply stated their objections to the Queen visiting a site that commemorates IRA members. I do not believe the IRA of 1916-21 to be traitors, merely extremely dim people by and large, who believed in fairy tales of a united Ireland (which has never existed) and of a magical Irish culture which stands up as well to scrutiny as the shite the BNP dribble.

"Extremely dim" why? There were some extremely well educationed people involved
"fairy tales of a united Ireland" what are you on about? The War of Independence was for an independant Ireland (if it was united or not only became an issue in 1922! when Lloyd George said 6 counties in Ulster were not to be given dominaion status)!
"Magical Irish culture ..... BNP" - what the f#ck! culture like singing, dancing, story telling, sports etc being compared to the BNP!


The fact the IRA have been involved in the bombings of British cities both in Ulster and the mainland, as well as the brutal murders of hundreds of soldiers, policemen and civilians as recently as 13 years ago (officially, whilst making no real effort to get hold of their CIRA,RIRA brethen) in an effort to force a union between North and South Ireland that the North doesn't want. That makes them a completely different kettle of fish to the Mau Mau as well you know.
You should amend that IRA to PIRA/OIRA because it is a very different organisation to the IRA!

How do you know the North doesn't want it? There was supposed to be a vote and a boundary commission after the 1922 Treaty... guess what.... never happened!

Why do to think they arrested people very quickly over the murder of a member of the PSNI? And found arms?


It is pure insanity her going anywere in the South at the minute.There is no question there will be at least one attack during her visit.Would you put your life in the hands of the Republic's security forces.Look at Mountbatten and the Ambasador,blown to bits!
Wasn't there a bomb in the Houses of Parliament in 1974? Wasn't Thatcher nearly killed in Brighton?

The threat to Mountbatten was seen as low (even by himself) and was in Bally-go-backwards.

The Gardai are a very professional organisation when it comes to protecting VIPs!





We are proud of our history, we would have liked it to be more peaceful but many felt like they had no option but to take up arms! Others should respect that, as our nation respects them!
 
Ps, I couldn't give two fucks about King Billy or the Boyne. Nor do I have a tattoo on my arrse of Ulster or a Red Hand tie.

But you've fired up the finest orange outrage bus over the Queen visiting a memorial garden … 'that remembers those who killed British soldiers during rebellious uprisings.'

Of course, you rather conveniently ignore all the innocent Irishmen and women murdered by such fine bodies of men as the Black & Tans, a body of men that any nation could be 'proud' of. But hey, they were only catholics so clearly üntermensch.


I think my Passport declaring me British might say something different as to your argument.

United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. You're an add on and an after thought dating from 1927, not the real thing.
 
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