Queen and Country

Discussion in 'Charities and Welfare' started by Barrack Room Lawyer, Jan 8, 2008.

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  1. Chaps, I dont know if this has been posted before apologies if it has, I only just received it via email, all you need to do is sign the petition.


    Message Read:
    This internet site was sent to me by a friend of Mrs Abby Cornish whose
    husband was killed on TELIC 8. I think it's a great idea, but in order to make it happen it needs more publicity. I would appreciate it if you took a glance at this web site and forwarded it others who might also support this cause in order to get the word around. I know it means a great deal too many families like Abby's.

  2. Sorry. I can't go along with this.

    I've got mixed feelings about how different families may react to this, not only those of the fallen, but also those of the living.

    It may seem a good idea now, but when the families of the fallen throw their used envelopes in the bin, how are they going to feel about consigning a picture of their loved one into the same receptacle.

    It's fine to buy stamps of your loved one - you have that choice, but recipients wouldn't have that choice.

    Add to that, the thought of philatelists eagerly awaiting the next new stamp.

    No. There's got to be a better way.
  3. I've never seen this before and it's a sterling idea. In fact, into my signature you go small clicky.
  4. Has the artist been paid for this 'project'? If so how much money has he put towards any of the Forces Charities?
  5. As I recall, nothing mentioned in the link.
  6. From The Art Fund Website:


    So, the "artist" didn't think of this.

    I say "artist" because the photographs were given to him. It would appear that all that needed to be added was the Queen's silhouette and a line of text down one side. I wonder how much his commission is worth.
  7. Puttees, I respect what you're saying here, but a bit more public awareness of what actually happens in our AORs might help fight the fight for better conditions of service.

    I would object to anything that would be seen as 'tarting' our service, but why not a tribute to the dead?
  8. Cheers for that. However i was wondering if he had been paid for his 'project'. don't see him doing it without funding and wondered if he had, had he donated any of that. However it seems to cover the point that he hasn't put any cash towards any of the Forces charities, as I'm sure he would've mentioned it in the Q and A

    edited for mongtype
  9. To the general public, the faces on the stamps will be meaningless. There may be a raised awareness of the fact that soldiers are dying when the set of stamps is issued, but it will disappear by the next morning.

    The bereaved will probably have mixed feelings. Those who gave consent to having their loved one's face put on a stamp may get a bit of a warm glow - stirring fond memories etc - but those who didn't will still be receiving letters adorned with the faces of soldiers who died. It may not be their son/daughter/husband/wife/mother/father/sister/brother/aunt/uncle/nephew/niece whose face is on the stamp, but it may well be considered to represent them. These are the people who don't have a choice. Can't they be left to grieve in their own way?

    While not trying to denigrate PTSD in any way, soldiers have a better chance of coping with the loss of a mate. The system recognises the problem, soldiers share their grief with their surviving mates and life goes on. But what about the wives/husbands of serving soldiers? Each letter that arrives will remind them that their spouse may not be coming back from their current tour. To some extent, MQs may provide some of the group therapy that the soldiers get from being with their mates. But now think about the spouses of the TA soldiers - they probably don't even know each other, let alone drop round for coffee or say hello as they pass in the street.

    What comes next? Divorces? Soldiers leaving in droves?

    I'm looking at the potential fall-out and I can't see that the pros outweigh the cons - unless you take the opposite stance and view it from the perspective of an anti-military campaigner where the cons are non-existant.
  10. I highlighted this project a few weeks ago, I personally believe its a wonderful idea and a good way to bring the faces of those who have died in service of their country to a wider consciousness. I think prompting people to think about (even a passing thought to the memory of) these brave men and women, and those who have survived or who are still on tour, can surely only be a positive thing.
    It brings the sacrificed to peoples minds, their homes, their every day. The families of the deceased have approved the pictures used and support the project.
    "The stamps would focus on individual experience without euphemism. It would form an intimate reflection of national loss that would involve the families of the dead and permeate the everyday – every household and every office." Steve McQueen

    I take your thoughts on board putteesinmyhands, but have to say i don't agree.
    I don't think throwing an envelope away with one of these stamps on would be throwing away that persons memory, or be disrespectful. On the contrary, i feel that in the split second that persons face is seen and one hopes their sacrifice recognised and installed in the memory of the person contemplating it, then it has achieved its purpose. If one was being practical one could say the stamp then reverts to what it is, a piece of printed gummed paper. Its the effect of viewing it that is the important thing. Disposing of the stamp would be no different to disposing of a newspaper in which the photograph of a deceased person is carried.
    Personally, if it was my loved one who appeared on the stamp, i wouldn't throw it away, i would remove it and keep it with all my other pictures and sentimental objects, but i wouldn't expect someone who didn't know that person to do the same, just as i wouldn't expect them to retain newspaper clippings of my deceased loved one either. I would however be comforted to know that their story has been read, their face looked upon with respect and their sacrifice appreciated.
    Remember, Steve has involved the families of the deceased in the process and sought their approval. What he has done has been done out of immense respect. He went out there and was deeply moved, and inspired to do something that would commemorate the dead and bring them into peoples consciousness who otherwise may never think to learn what the faces of those who had died during the conflict looked like.
  11. Some good points there Puttees,

    I must say when I posted this topic, I didnt envisage the stamps being used en-masse within the Royal Mail system, but thought they were more likely to be issued as limited edition commemorative sets, obviously a few will be used as frankage, but the bulk would be brought by philatelists.
  12. http://www.artfund.org/queenandcountry/The_Families.html

    There are currently 101 photographs listed.

    A total of 156 families have been approached, 17 didn't want to participate and it appears that a total of 55 families don't want their bereaved's photos included.

    Altering the direction of the spin, it looks as if a THIRD of the families DON'T want to see their bereaved's face on a stamp.

    In the almost 2 months that this has been running, 6 comments have been attracted. One said no, one may have a political agenda and four are supportive.

    There are probably other comments to be had in the list of newspapers carrying the story, though what we don't know with any of these lists of comments is how many have been edited out as inappropriate or unsupportive of the editor's view.
  13. And probably waiting with baited breath for the Afghanistan series to come out. Morbid, not respectful.

    And - if they were to be mainly for philatelists, where's the argument about public awareness?

    If I were a real cynic, I'd suggest that it's little more than a scam dreamed up by a Turner Prize winner who lives and works in Holland. But I won't, because that may be libellous. Does he get paid by the number of photos given to him?
  14. Hello all! A comment from the septic side of the pond (if you can put up with it for a minute). Just wanted to explain how we have done this over here. For many years many countries have issued "semi-postal" stamps where part of the price goes to postage and part to a charity/cause. The US only started doing this in 1998. There have been a few US "Semi-Postals" but the most popular has been the breast cancer stamp. They have been sold at various prices as postal costs go up.

    The current price of mailing a domestic letter in the US is 41 cents for one ounce. The breast cancer stamp sells for 55 cents and for every stamp sold 14 cents goes to breast cancer research. The stamp reads "US Postage .41" It does not sound like a lot but it adds up. To date, the stamp has raised over $54 million for breast cancer research. By law, 70 percent of the net amount raised is given to the National Institutes of Health and 30 percent is given to the Medical Research Program at the Department of Defense.

    Just a thought, you would not have to use pictures of actual soldiers, but a generic picture of a soldier with the inscription "ForQueen and Country" and the price. In your case, no need for "UK" as the UK is the only country exempt from the legal requirement to put the name of the country on stamps.

    As to the members of the public who don't like to be reminded of dead and wounded soldiers "(verb omitted) and the horse they came in on". It is good for the public to be reminded that people die in the service.

    By the way, in case you are wondering, despite the fact that prostate cancer kills more Americans than breast cancer there has never been a prostate cancer stamp.