Putting L/Cpls into Cpl LSNs

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by FredKarno, Aug 20, 2006.

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  1. A call to ORBAT/7005 ninjas:

    I want to promote some Ptes to L/Cpl.

    I haven't got enough L/Cpl LSNs free, but do have some unused Cpl slots.
    (My current L/Cpls aren't yet ready for promotion, so I can't clear L/Cpl LSNs that way.)

    Can I use the Cpl LSNs for L/Cpls (paid at L/Cpl rate of course)?

    I'm fairly sure I can at the moment, but will I still be able to when JPA comes in? I really don't want to promote people then have to try and take it back off them later.

    Any help much appreciated.
  2. When you say your LCpls are 'not ready' for promotion, do you mean that your CO is not prepared to promote them yet, or that they are not yet qualified?

    If the former, there should be no reason, even under JPA, that they can't fill the higher LSN. However, if the latter, there may be issues with JPA.

    At the end of the day though, JPA is still not upon us. Your MCM desk offr/AO should only be applying the current rules until such time as it does go live. Therefore, under current rules there are no issues with filling a higher-ranking liability with a lower-ranking asset. This, of course, will be subject to your MCM's opinion though.
  3. Soldier_Why

    Soldier_Why LE Moderator

    You can have LCpls in Cpl LSNs, however you would have to go back to MCM Div and ask them to issue an amendment posting order, this will then free up your LCpl LSNs and allow you to promote into. BUT if you are putting LCpls into Cpl LSNs I assume they will actually be doing the job to which the LSN corresponds? If so, then surely they are entitled to SUPA?

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but you will not be promoting anybody MCM Div will.
  4. Sounds like FredKarno is TA?

    A common theme within the TA is that you've got SNCO ranks all filled up, and then a gap at the JNCO level.

    APC is taking a more active interest in making sure that the soldiers on the books are filling a LSN, but when you have a Corporal slot vacant, but no suitable Lance Corporal to be promoted, and a couple of Privates who need promotion now in order to stop them being poached and promoted elsewhere, you move the people filling the LSNs around so that a LCpl fills a Cpl spot, allowing you to promote the more deserving Private.

    Another way of handling this in the TA is posting a soldier elsewhere within his parent unit, but still working at his current sub-unit. On paper, he's elsewhere.

    It's a way of making the paperwork fit the realities of the TA.

    In the Regular Army, careers are managed better, so gaps should be less likely. The TA manages SNCO careers to a point, but is less good with JNCO as it can depend a lot of the time on suitable people.
  5. We are indeed a TA unit, and Soldier Why is of course correct. I will not be promoting them. I will be suggesting their names go forward to our regimental promotions board to get them raised to the level of L/Cpl through MCM.

    The situation is that we have a number of L/Cpl LSNs, and a larger number of Cpl LSNs, about 8 of which are currently unfilled.

    The current crop of L/Cpls need courses of various types to be eligible for promotion. This will take most of them another 12 months to achieve.

    However, I currently have some very good Ptes who are qualified for promotion, hence the question as to whether I can put a L/Cpl into a Cpl LSN to clear some L/Cpl LSNs.

    In most cases, the L/Cpl moving into the Cpl LSN won't actually be doing the Cpl job in its entirety, but will probably be so doing within the next 12-18 months.

    I'm trying to avoid the Ptes having to wait until the L/Cpls are promoted, before being able to move them up, when I have plenty of LSNs for ranks senior to L/Cpl.

    I think the answer is that I can do so (from the postings above) but I may chuck the question back at Regt and get them to verify this.

    As I said above, I'm concerned that when JPA comes in, with a L/Cpl sitting in a Cpl LSN (or whatever the new term is ....) the system will throw a hissy fit and not let him be paid at all, never mind as a L/Cpl.
  6. Soldier_Why

    Soldier_Why LE Moderator

    Sounds like a plan! As I said, you can do it as long as the LCpls are moved into the Cpl LSNs officially thus 'freeing up' the LCpl slots.

    I wouldn't worry about it - whether you move people around or not I can guarantee that the transition to JPA will result in quite a few teddies being thrown!