Putin Watching .... The story continues

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Goatman, Apr 2, 2017.

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Vladimir Putin is...

This poll will close on Apr 2, 2018 at 1:15 PM.
  1. The greatest current threat to Europe

    9 vote(s)
  2. The greatest threat to world peace outside North Korea

    4 vote(s)
  3. A wily politician who will hang on to power to the last Russian

    20 vote(s)
  4. A thoroughly decent chap who is just a bit misunderstood.

    12 vote(s)
  5. A former KGB operative who requires constant vigilance from the West.

    24 vote(s)
  6. A closet friend of Dorothy.

    3 vote(s)
  7. " He's not the Messiah; he's a very naughty boy - now hop it!"

    4 vote(s)
  8. All of the above.

    28 vote(s)
  1. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Well I used the search function like a good little Ewok and couldn't find anything specifically matching this.

    A recent analysis of Vlad the Bad from a creditable source,reprinted by the Grauniad:

    For the good and benefit of the Troop.

    Question: I have a faint outline of who Vladimir Putin is,and where he's coming from - but who is Dmitri Trenin? And who picks up his costs?

    Russia Is the House That Vladimir Putin Built – and He’ll Never Abandon It - Carnegie Moscow Center - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

    Even so, for the Russian people, Putin is above all a symbol of stability after a decade and a half of turmoil that included the misguided and botched reform of the Soviet communist system; its abrupt end and the sudden advent of freedom that often looked like a free-for-all; the painful dissolution of the Soviet Union; market reforms, often dubbed “shock without therapy”; virtually instant crass inequality; the end of ideology and the collapse of morals.

  2. CanteenCowboy

    CanteenCowboy LE Book Reviewer

    Definitely needs a "all of the above" option.
  3. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    Done....but I'm not sure he's a " thoroughly decent chap"

    Even posthumously.

    This dit is also caught my eye


    The debate over whether we are or are not in a new Cold War reflects different views of what has happened over the last quarter-century. The story that is most often told in the West sees Gorbachev and Yeltsin making great strides towards democracy and free markets at home, matched by an unprecedented degree of co-operation with the West on the global stage. In this narrative, the rise of Putin meant a reversal of all these trends, resulting in a steady reassertion of Russian power after 2000 that fuelled a series of ugly confrontations. In Who Lost Russia? Peter Conradi attempts a more balanced view, providing a brisk run-through of the post-Cold War era in which both Russia and the West are faulted for a string of misguided moves. A correspondent in Moscow from 1988 to 1995, and now foreign editor of the Sunday Times, Conradi points out the major landmarks along the road to the present hostility. From Russia’s perspective, these were the steady enlargement of Nato; the interventions in Kosovo, Iraq and Libya; US support for protest-driven regime change in former Soviet states from the mid-2000s onwards; and US and EU attempts to pull Georgia and Ukraine into the West’s orbit. From the Western point of view, the charge sheet includes Russia’s suppression of internal dissent and rigging of the electoral system; attacks on the principle of private property (most notably with the dismembering of Yukos); the invasion of Georgia; the annexation of Crimea and military incursions into eastern Ukraine; as well as the more recent signs of interloping in the US elections.

    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  4. I found both those articles to be rather naive (or rather "on message"...) and over-generous to Putin, and I certainly don't agree that current relations are down to the West making "a string of misguided moves" - Putin's agenda has been explicitly clear since 2000.

    I think few people in the liberal west truly comprehend the nature of a country where there has never been any social or political advancement in a millennia.
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Schaden

    Schaden LE Book Reviewer

    I wonder how far would the Russians be able to roll into Europe if the American and the Brits said it really has nothing to do with us.

    I reckon at least as far as the Rhine before the French got twitchy.
  6. seaweed

    seaweed LE Book Reviewer

    Tsar Putin's policies and behaviour are exactly the same as those of all the other Tsars including his unilateral view of what is Russia's 'sphere of influence'. He is Tsar of all the Russias and the only fix for the problem is his eventual demise.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. .
  8. Goatman

    Goatman LE Book Reviewer

    • Like Like x 1
  9. From a Russian geo-political aspect - Putin's gameplans do make sense.

    Caveat: From what I've been reading about in a book (Prisoners of geography).
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Yeah but his actions do not make much sense for the people of Russia, unfortunately for them.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  11. He is less of a warmonger than us on our moral high ground have been.
    • Like Like x 3
  12. His main target is the Russian ,people and he is just constantly ripping them off. I live in a country with high levels of state crime and corruption but still not nearly as high as those of Russia.
  13. Must admit, I can't recall a western country that has invaded, occupied and annexed part of another sovereign state recently. I know there's been invasions, but no occupations and annexations all within the (debateable) remit of UN resolutions.

    There are no UN resolutions on Crimea just 100 countries telling Russia to get out at the UN. Maybe RT, Pravda, Sputnik, Global Research and the other agitprop sites have a different take but that's the bottom line
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  14. Well, we have the moral high ground and have always tried to act in the best interests of the world community. We are not currently murdering our neighbours because we don't want them talking to other people..
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Well, that's all right then. There can't possibly be any dead civilians resulting if we meant well.
    • Like Like x 2