Putin cool to Olmerts Iran plea

#1
An Israeli appeal to Russia that it should help block Iran's acquisition of a nuclear bomb appears to have failed, with Russia not offering any public pledge.

Vladimir Putin, Russia's president, did not give any reassurance that Russia would check any Iranian intent to acquire nuclear weaponry following a plea from Ehud Olmert, Israel's prime minister, on Wednesday in Moscow.

Although ties between Russia and Israel have warmed dramatically since the Soviet Union collapsed, the two countries are in deep disagreement over how to confront the Iranian nuclear threat.

Israel considers Iran to be its greatest threat.

Israel, like the West, disbelieves Tehran's claims that it is developing energy, and wants its nuclear capabilities to be put in check
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/66C8CC87-D0AB-4B26-BC8A-E9B71A20D3C7.htm
 
#2
Funny - I thought Israel didn't need to care about world opinion (other than US) when bombing Lebanese civilians.
 
#3
It should be taken into account that Russian policy now is pragmatical, selfish and cynical.

I think that mr.Olmert is intelligent enough to understand that he has nothing to propose in return for changing of Russian position toward Iranian nuclear station. So the results of the visit were easily predictable.

Softening of Russian position in Iranian question would be alogical taking into account current American policy toward Russia. Now it is openly unfriendly. USA blocks Russian membership in WTO, encourage Georgian puppets for military actions.

If Israel instead of American weapons would ask for Russian ones then it would be a serious business proposition. But it hasn't happened.
 
#4
It appears that before the negotiatiobs with mr.Olmert pres.Putin 'joked'

http://www.newsru.co.il/world/20oct2006/pu_shutki.html

...this trip will be memorized to Israelis, first of all, by the unsuccessful joke of the President Putin, who asked mr.Olmert to transmit regards to the President of Israel Moshe Katsav and said, keeping in mind the sexual scandal, which threatens by resignation to the Israeli President: “It astonished us all. We did not think that he was capable to deal with 10 women. We envy to him". Associates Putin laughed above the joke of boss, but Israeli delegation did not hide its confusion.
 
#5
I thought Israel was doing a bit of Trade with Russia on the weapons front these days? Both in buying spares for their captured East bloc equipment and in offering upgrade and mod. packages for older aircraft and equipment from Russia... In co operation with Russian concerns.
 
#6
Biscuits_Brown said:
I thought Israel was doing a bit of Trade with Russia on the weapons front these days? Both in buying spares for their captured East bloc equipment and in offering upgrade and mod. packages for older aircraft and equipment from Russia... In co operation with Russian concerns.
Another Putin's joke (or maybe not a joke) springs in mind. Visiting Israel Putin was asked by local journalist: why does Russia sell weapons to Syria and other 'wrong' countries? Putin replied that if the journalist would arrange $2bn. weapons contract for Russia in Israel then he would be decorated by one of the highests Russian orders.
 
#7
Has Ahkmadinnerjacket made another, this time more subtle, threat to Israel when he said Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear
 
#8
Sven said:
Has Ahkmadinnerjacket made another, this time more subtle, threat to Israel when he said Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear
Only Allah knows what pres.Ahmadinejad meant.

Let's regard this scenario: Instead of Israel, new democratatic state is created where anybody would have equal rights, where Jews and Arabs would live peacefully together on their common homeland. Switzerland would be a model for this new state with Israeli and Palestinian cantons, with Jerusalem as a common capital.

This scenario is unrealistic but who would accuse anybody who dreams about it? Maybe Iranian president meant namely this scenario.
 

Nehustan

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#9
KGB_resident said:
Sven said:
Has Ahkmadinnerjacket made another, this time more subtle, threat to Israel when he said Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear
Only Allah knows what pres.Ahmadinejad meant.

Let's regard this scenario: Instead of Israel, new democratatic state is created where anybody would have equal rights, where Jews and Arabs would live peacefully together on their common homeland. Switzerland would be a model for this new state with Israeli and Palestinian cantons, with Jerusalem as a common capital.

This scenario is unrealistic but who would accuse anybody who dreams about it? Maybe Iranian president meant namely this scenario.
Now all you have to do is rewind 60/100 years, get Balfour and Rothschilde in a room, slap them about a bit, bash the post war UN, and you may just have an idea there Serge...
 
#10
Nehustan said:
KGB_resident said:
Sven said:
Has Ahkmadinnerjacket made another, this time more subtle, threat to Israel when he said Israel no longer had any reason to exist and would soon disappear
Only Allah knows what pres.Ahmadinejad meant.

Let's regard this scenario: Instead of Israel, new democratatic state is created where anybody would have equal rights, where Jews and Arabs would live peacefully together on their common homeland. Switzerland would be a model for this new state with Israeli and Palestinian cantons, with Jerusalem as a common capital.

This scenario is unrealistic but who would accuse anybody who dreams about it? Maybe Iranian president meant namely this scenario.
Now all you have to do is rewind 60/100 years, get Balfour and Rothschilde in a room, slap them about a bit, bash the post war UN, and you may just have an idea there Serge...
I proposed a scenario. It doesn't mean that I regard it as realistic one. I meant only that bearing the scenario in mind the words said by Iranian president could be not so sinister.

Btw, non-Jewish population of Israel is growing (absolutely and proportionally). Who can predict a domographic situation in 2020 or 2050? What is Arabs would be a majority in Israel and would (democratically of course) rename the country. There are even calls to elect Arab president of Israel.
 

Nehustan

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#11
KGB_resident said:
I proposed a scenario. It doesn't mean that I regard it as realistic one. I meant only that bearing the scenario in mind the words said by Iranian president could be not so sinister.

I was agreeing, not having a go Serge...

KGB_resident said:
Btw, non-Jewish population of Israel is growing (absolutely and proportionally). Who can predict a domographic situation in 2020 or 2050? What is Arabs would be a majority in Israel and would (democratically of course) rename the country. There are even calls to elect Arab president of Israel.
...and the smart Yahoud will be the ones who can see this coming and prepare for it, and I don't mean miltarily...the analogy of building bridges springs to mind. What will happen to the Ashkanasim tho', my bet is that they'll have to wander around Western Europe and the US (perhaps Russia?) looking pissed off :twisted:
 
#12
KGB_resident said:
..... Who can predict a domographic situation in 2020 or 2050? What is Arabs would be a majority in Israel and would (democratically of course) rename the country. There are even calls to elect Arab president of Israel.
Depends on the immigration from the Diaspora, and that will depend largely on how threatened various Diaspora communities feel, etc (the French being one that comes to mind today) . Who can predict their position in 2020 or 2050? Especially in Western Europe where Islam is on the rise.

Also, the ultra-Orthodox community (which is growing) in Israel has large families also, this will also affect the demography in another generation.

Nehushtan - the Ashkenaz / Sefarad divide is alot less promounced then it ever was and by 2020, 2050, etc (coming generations) will largely be forgotten or immaterial.
 

Nehustan

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#13
Arik said:
KGB_resident said:
..... Who can predict a domographic situation in 2020 or 2050? What is Arabs would be a majority in Israel and would (democratically of course) rename the country. There are even calls to elect Arab president of Israel.
Depends on the immigration from the Diaspora, and that will depend largely on how threatened various Diaspora communities feel, etc (the French being one that comes to mind today) . Who can predict their position in 2020 or 2050? Especially in Western Europe where Islam is on the rise.

Also, the ultra-Orthodox community (which is growing) in Israel has large families also, this will also affect the demography in another generation.

Nehushtan - the Ashkenaz / Sefarad divide is alot less promounced then it ever was and by 2020, 2050, etc (coming generations) will largely be forgotten or immaterial.
Funny that because from my anecdotal experience (and quite a few documentaries/news articles from near and far) it seems that the cultural difference between the Western and Levantine Jews (inc. North Africa) is as ever a gap, with some (many?) Egyptian/Tunisian/Yemeni/Persian Yahoud etc. realising (despite of Israeli propaganda) that they actually have far more culturally in common with Arab (& Persian) Muslims and Christians than they do with UK/EU/US Askanasim. As to Spanish Jews (sephardim), mostly I'd think that since 1492 they may as well be considered Levantine/Oriental. That some (probably currently a majority) Sephardim and even some Levantine buy into the state of Israel, go figure...
 

Nehustan

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#14
Arik said:
Depends on the immigration from the Diaspora, and that will depend largely on how threatened various Diaspora communities feel, etc (the French being one that comes to mind today) . Who can predict their position in 2020 or 2050? Especially in Western Europe where Islam is on the rise.
Ok Islam on the rise in Europe? Solution: Move to the Middle East. I detect some logical disconnect here...
 
#15
Sergeys picture is a nice one, and something I would hope for. However, is he proposing that Gaza and the West Bank are the 'contons' he spoke of - if so I think that the Palastinians (and I suspect, many arab governments)would be in need of just as much a slapping as Nehustan would like to administer to Rothschild. Otherwise the palestinians just won't be up for it.

Without the Palestinian areas in the equation I cannot see the arab part of the Israeli population equalling the jewish part this century, and possibly the greater part of next century
 

Nehustan

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#16
Sven said:
Sergeys picture is a nice one, and something I would hope for. However, is he proposing that Gaza and the West Bank are the 'contons' he spoke of - if so I think that the Palastinians (and I suspect, many arab governments)would be in need of just as much a slapping as Nehustan would like to administer to Rothschild. Otherwise the palestinians just won't be up for it.

Without the Palestinian areas in the equation I cannot see the arab part of the Israeli population equalling the jewish part this century, and possibly the greater part of next century

I'd probably slap Balfour much more on multiple counts 1.) supposedly no parliament can bind another parliament, but as Foreign Secretaries and thus parliamentarians go Balfour has done a pretty damn fine job, 2.) I'm not distantly related (by marriage if not my blood) to Balfour.
 

Nehustan

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#17
As an aside and in relationship to the Rothschild clan, what is Cameron's advisor Goldsmith doing playing away with a Rothschild, haven't seen her but he doesn't need the money and there is no way she can be as pretty as his wife. Substantial proof that politicians are inherently foolish...
 
#18
Nehustan said:
Funny that because from my anecdotal experience (and quite a few documentaries/news articles from near and far) it seems that the cultural difference between the Western and Levantine Jews (inc. North Africa) is as ever a gap ...
Well, you will find that in Israel, the relevance of where Grandpa and Grandma came from is less important then a generation previously. People tend to identify more with a generic Israeli cultural brand.

Nehustan said:
, with some (many?) Egyptian/Tunisian/Yemeni/Persian Yahoud etc. realising (despite of Israeli propaganda) that they actually have far more culturally in common with Arab (& Persian) Muslims and Christians than they do with UK/EU/US Askanasim. As to Spanish Jews (sephardim), mostly I'd think that since 1492 they may as well be considered Levantine/Oriental. That some (probably currently a majority) Sephardim and even some Levantine buy into the state of Israel, go figure...
Ok, when I say sephardim I mean non-ashkenazi. Oddly enough you are wrong about Jews who hark from arab countries. If one was to generalise, the centre / right wing Likud is sometimes seen as drawing it's support from sephardim (this was the case for example with Likud led by Begin & Shamir) and the ashkenazim being viewed as supporters of the centre left and liberal side of the political spectrum!
If you were to tell an Israeli of sefardi extraction that he had much in common with the arab culturally you may not get a pleasant response!
 

Nehustan

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#19
Arik said:
If you were to tell an Israeli of sefardi extraction that he had much in common with the arab culturally you may not get a pleasant response!
I wouldn't dream of it, tho' I might comment on whether they prefer falafel or chicken soup, flat bread or bagel :twisted:
 
#20
Sven said:
Sergeys picture is a nice one, and something I would hope for. However, is he proposing that Gaza and the West Bank are the 'contons' [I mentioned cantons] he spoke of - if so I think that the Palastinians (and I suspect, many arab governments)would be in need of just as much a slapping as Nehustan would like to administer to Rothschild. Otherwise the palestinians just won't be up for it.

Without the Palestinian areas in the equation I cannot see the arab part of the Israeli population equalling the jewish part this century, and possibly the greater part of next century
The picture is a pure fantasy. Though who knows... Is it possible that in the future ruling majority in Israel would include Arab parties.
 

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