Push fit copper fittings

You don't braze plumbing fittings.
The French do.

If you were to braze the joint with a copper/phosphorus alloy brazing rod, you don't need a flux.
You don't need an active flux, like Powerflow and the like, that makes it unnecessary to clean the joint surfaces, because they produces acidic compounds that clean the surfaces. The flux residues also get into the circulating water, making it acidic and promoting bi-mettalic/galvanic corrosion and turning the insides of the radiators into black magnetite sludge.

The French do not have problems with black sludge and they do not have a power-flushing industry.

Gas capilliary fittings are soft soldered, but gas fitters aren't meant to use active fluxes.
Refrigerant fittings are brazed, but the fittings are a different design.
 

Mrsheeny

War Hero
Thanks for offer of help.

Below are the pics and a sketch.

You can see the pipes are close to the wall and although it already looks a bit grotty, I don't want to mess up the decor any more.
My idea was to replace the soldered elbows at the bottom of the down pipes with the push fit elbows and just go straight through the wall to the new rad position. Any advice appreciated.


On a separate issue, would it be ok to add an additional radiator into the system as shown? (its 1 400mm x 1000.. k11) The boiler is rated at 82000 BTU and adding the extra one would take the rads installed to 64000 BTU. there would be no thermostatic valve on it just a straight flow through.
View attachment 460851



View attachment 460852View attachment 460853
Stop cock off, drain down, open vents upstairs on rads.

Cut into pipes on opposite side where it drops, run new pipes but use Yorkshire fittings, the ones which have a solder ring inside, get a heat mat if you’re worried about burning the walls but a good plumber doesn’t need a heat mat ;-)

Don’t bother with plastic, it looks shit, I used to use it where you couldn’t see it on central heatings like under the floor, in the walls and in the loft but I’d always pop up with copper tails around the boiler and rads.

You’ll be fine adding the extra radiator, you’ll just need to rebalance the system afterwards. That’s turning on the heating and turning down the radiators which gets up the quickest so that the system gets hot equally.
 

Camm1

LE
Stop cock off, drain down, open vents upstairs on rads.

Cut into pipes on opposite side where it drops, run new pipes but use Yorkshire fittings, the ones which have a solder ring inside, get a heat mat if you’re worried about burning the walls but a good plumber doesn’t need a heat mat ;-)

Don’t bother with plastic, it looks shit, I used to use it where you couldn’t see it on central heatings like under the floor, in the walls and in the loft but I’d always pop up with copper tails around the boiler and rads.

You’ll be fine adding the extra radiator, you’ll just need to rebalance the system afterwards. That’s turning on the heating and turning down the radiators which gets up the quickest so that the system gets hot equally.
Cheers Mucker much appreciated.
 
Arrse never ceases to amaze me. Post the most blurred photo of a distant relative in the Great War and within minutes that person's service history is located. Post an image of rounds produced for the Ethiopian Army and within minutes someone will provide the rack number of the rifle that last used the round.

Now Arrse provides an on line plumbing service. Amazing
ETA: and an Aga Consultancy Service (strictly for the Middle Classes, I'm afraid).
 
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Learn to braze.
You should not need to braze when plumbing, soldering works.

I learnt to braze on my plumbing C&G and the only time I used the skill was when brazing a baffle into the straight through exhaust on the lads motorbike recently.

The plastic plumbing push fit connectors are bombproof if used correctly*, I have used Speedfit and the Polyplumb polypipe fittings. Attended the factory underfloor heating course at Polyplumb and was shown around the lab and R&D shop. The science chap told me that the plastic fittings would outlive most people on the planet so they actually put something into the plastic to help break it down after about 300 or 400 years. They demo'ed the stuff at super cooled and superheated environments showing the abuse the stuff can take - super-heated steam was pushed through a circuit of the pipework and it held up magnificently.

The early copper push-fit connections were of variable quality - crap to absolute shite. They have improved significantly as the copper fittings industry had to compete with the speedfit crowd. Here in the US they are called Shark-Bite, can't remember what they call them in the UK.

The best connection though is soldered copper. I had a couple of sheets of aluminium that I used in tight areas along with a fabric fire resistant pad. Good for tight spaces and tight corners slide the ally sheets in first and then the heat pad in front of the ally before firing up the torch.

If you want to learn how to solder do it the way we had to at college. Buy a big bag full of 15mm T connections and a length of 15mm copper pipe. Then cut the copper pipe into loadsa 3 inch lengths. Mount 2 of the 3 inch lengths in a vice 3 inches apart, connect the 2 T's with a piece of 3" pipe joining the leg of the T's, mount the T's on the pipe lengths in the vice and repeat, building a small copper ladder. You also have to use emery cloth on the male and female connections and apply flux before making the connections. Then solder, soldering together a small copper ladder...........then apply end caps to 2 of the open ends and a tap to another, with a connection for a hose on the last. Connect hose turn on water and see if your joints are good, turn on and off your tap a few times to see if they hold..............there you have it, how they teach soldering at college.
 
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Bacongrills

On ROPS
On ROPs
The French do.

If you were to braze the joint with a copper/phosphorus alloy brazing rod, you don't need a flux.
You don't need an active flux, like Powerflow and the like, that makes it unnecessary to clean the joint surfaces, because they produces acidic compounds that clean the surfaces. The flux residues also get into the circulating water, making it acidic and promoting bi-mettalic/galvanic corrosion and turning the insides of the radiators into black magnetite sludge.

The French do not have problems with black sludge and they do not have a power-flushing industry.

Gas capilliary fittings are soft soldered, but gas fitters aren't meant to use active fluxes.
Refrigerant fittings are brazed, but the fittings are a different design.
The terms brazing and silver soldering seem to be swapped around a lot, but I was always taught to use brazing for braze welding where the filled metal is non capillary and just builds up on the surface and silver soldering was done by setting a gap for the filler metal to flow, brazing was rods and a torch and SS came in strips and was done mostly in a forge . Brazing rods don't contain silver I know that.

What they do on refrigeration gas fittings I would call silver soldering but I think they call it brazing ?
 
The French do.

If you were to braze the joint with a copper/phosphorus alloy brazing rod, you don't need a flux.
You don't need an active flux, like Powerflow and the like, that makes it unnecessary to clean the joint surfaces, because they produces acidic compounds that clean the surfaces. The flux residues also get into the circulating water, making it acidic and promoting bi-mettalic/galvanic corrosion and turning the insides of the radiators into black magnetite sludge.

The French do not have problems with black sludge and they do not have a power-flushing industry.

Gas capilliary fittings are soft soldered, but gas fitters aren't meant to use active fluxes.
Refrigerant fittings are brazed, but the fittings are a different design.
You also do not braze using flux on air conditioning system refrigerant carrying pipe.
 
If you're building and joining components that are going to be buried inside a ground-source heat-pump you braze.
 
Cut into pipes on opposite side where it drops, run new pipes but use Yorkshire fittings, the ones which have a solder ring inside, get a heat mat if you’re worried about burning the walls but a good plumber doesn’t need a heat mat
71i5ZTjawmL._SL1500_.jpg


I've used one of these in the past when I couldn't even get a heat mat in place.
 
The guy in the photo won’t sweat them joints using end feed and no solder. Those would be useful if he were using Yorkshire fittings.
Do you mean solder ring? That's what I've always used
 

Mrsheeny

War Hero
Do you mean solder ring? That's what I've always used
Yeah. If you’re going to use one of those heat irons or whatever they call them I’d use solder ring.

OP - Just a tip for you, cut two pieces of pipe long enough to go through the wall and to where you will t off them for the first rad valves. Solder the elbow and a piece of pipe to go up prior to shoving it back through the wall so that you’re not soldering the joint in place and burning the walls. Do you know what I mean?
 
I've just re-plumbed the utility room as we rebuilt it with bits removed from the old kitchen (more and better cupboards. Had to move the sink about 15" so took the opportunity to tidy it all up (including removing some of the original bodgitt and scarper plumbing).

Used 15mm solder ring as far as possible and where not then good old compression fittings (one awkward tee and new isolation valves).

Had more trouble with the plastic waste pipe than the copper!
 
Yeah. If you’re going to use one of those heat irons or whatever they call them I’d use solder ring.

OP - Just a tip for you, cut two pieces of pipe long enough to go through the wall and to where you will t off them for the first rad valves. Solder the elbow and a piece of pipe to go up prior to shoving it back through the wall so that you’re not soldering the joint in place and burning the walls. Do you know what I mean?
I know what you mean. When I last renovated a buy-to-let, the plasterer was having problems with the downstairs loo and was running late. So I told the plumber that I'd fit it myself. I just wanted him to run the H&C to the room.

He did. Left a 1/2" of capped off pipe protruding from the brickwork. I just about managed to get a short stub and an elbow on it, to allow the plasterer to finish off.
 

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