Purchase of additional Chinooks..?

#1
According to minister for defence equipment and support Quentin Davies, the MoD is entitled to claim Treasury funding to buy replacements for the lost aircraft. But rather than pursue a purchase on a one-for-one basis, he "hopes to go further".

Source: Flight Global


Jam tomorrow? Another vague promise?


Watch this space.
 
#2
Good thinking, and I like it a lot; just one small question. Given as Chinook crews are like rocking horse plop around the bazaars at the moment, who exactly is going to fly these things? Donald Duck?

The whole issue of "lack of helicopters" gets hijacked by airframe numbers, people don't consider the crew numbers required to operate said platforms. Even if we were to pull every Chinny jock / loadie from his desk job / teaching at DHFS, UAS or wherever, they'd still take the thick end of a year to get back to CR status again; and that assumes no further issues with the trg pipeline............

I am sure the AAC and the FAA are in exactly the same boat (pardon the pun), but will defer to those more in the know than I..........
 
#3
chasndave said:
Good thinking, and I like it a lot; just one small question. Given as Chinook crews are like rocking horse plop around the bazaars at the moment, who exactly is going to fly these things? Donald Duck?

The whole issue of "lack of helicopters" gets hijacked by airframe numbers, people don't consider the crew numbers required to operate said platforms. Even if we were to pull every Chinny jock / loadie from his desk job / teaching at DHFS, UAS or wherever, they'd still take the thick end of a year to get back to CR status again; and that assumes no further issues with the trg pipeline............

I am sure the AAC and the FAA are in exactly the same boat (pardon the pun), but will defer to those more in the know than I..........

TBF I think this is always a factor, but assuming an intention to buy decision then one presumes this gives enough time for new crews/conversion training. While I am no expert either, one presumes that as long as it's a straightforward frame that purchased then neither the Apache nor SF Chinook cock-ups should be a factor.
 
#4
There's an election approaching, there'll be an awful lot of promises flying about over the next 6 months. Of course, none of them will square with the need to cut back on the overall budget.
 
#5
PE4rocks said:
According to minister for defence equipment and support Quentin Davies, the MoD is entitled to claim Treasury funding to buy replacements for the lost aircraft. But rather than pursue a purchase on a one-for-one basis, he "hopes to go further".
Jam tomorrow? Another vague promise?
Could be code for:

"We are evaluating an offer by Westlands to provide an additional 6 SuperLynx aircraft in 2019 to fill the missing capability gap created by the unfortunate loss of the 2 Chinooks in Afghanistan. We will be making the buy British announcement shortly before the next election."

"I must also make it clear that their offer of a non-executive directorship after I am left jobless after a humiliating general election loss is merely an unfortunate coincidence."
 
#6
Normal proceedure should have been to issue orders for replacements of the two lost Wokkas but we all know how Labour think…


Shortage of pilots? A lot of that is because we have an artificial type/pilots/service split I suspect. We have plenty of Lynx or Puma pilots who could be sent off to Americashire to do a type conversion to Wokkas if we were so minded.

A doubling of the current heavy lift force would be a very welcome development.
 
#12
Oil_Slick said:
Normal proceedure should have been to issue orders for replacements of the two lost Wokkas but we all know how Labour think…


Shortage of pilots? A lot of that is because we have an artificial type/pilots/service split I suspect. We have plenty of Lynx or Puma pilots who could be sent off to Americashire to do a type conversion to Wokkas if we were so minded.

A doubling of the current heavy lift force would be a very welcome development.
Mate
What's going to happen with said Lx's / Pumas whilst these blokes go to the US on this hypothetical (oh and cost-free?) trg package then? Are they just going to sit round Benson / Wallop as ornaments? Or are we going to suspend the Ops using these platforms whilst the boys scoot off to the States.....??

And as for the "press more studes through DHFS" argument - it's not like Shawbury isn't working balls-to-the-wall just now, is it?

Oh, hold on.......
 
#13
How many orders is a sensible number given current commitments and manning issues ? Should we have about 60 in total or maybe less? Perhaps 12-15 new ones ?

I guess the other thing to consider is that some of them have been around since about 1980 and have seen a lot of action in that time, ZA718 for example, so should a few really be pushed off to museums rather than get further refits and instead be replaced by new builds ?

Presumably these would be AgustaWestland built Chinooks rather than Boeing ones so they won't have as many cost concerns around the the exchange rate that would otherwise be the case with a US supplied airframe.
 
#15
Since rotary wing airlift is clearly an area which needs to be expanded in theatre, should the RAF not be expanding rather than contracting? The MoD and Treasury need to take a long hard look at requirements in theatre, and seriously consider recruiting more crews and procuring more airframes. It's all well and good flooding more troops into theatre, but if you can't safely move them and keep them supplied, then they can't have much impact.

But then again, that would cost money, so it won't happen.
 
#16
chasndave said:
Oil_Slick said:
Normal proceedure should have been to issue orders for replacements of the two lost Wokkas but we all know how Labour think…


Shortage of pilots? A lot of that is because we have an artificial type/pilots/service split I suspect. We have plenty of Lynx or Puma pilots who could be sent off to Americashire to do a type conversion to Wokkas if we were so minded.

A doubling of the current heavy lift force would be a very welcome development.
Mate
What's going to happen with said Lx's / Pumas whilst these blokes go to the US on this hypothetical (oh and cost-free?) trg package then? Are they just going to sit round Benson / Wallop as ornaments? Or are we going to suspend the Ops using these platforms whilst the boys scoot off to the States.....??

And as for the "press more studes through DHFS" argument - it's not like Shawbury isn't working balls-to-the-wall just now, is it?

Oh, hold on.......

Very few Lynx and no Pumas in Afghanistan and we're going to be there for a good few years yet so it's time to adjust the reality to what it will be, not what it should be. Pumas were due to pay off soon enough, Lynx numbers are going to contract too with the new and over expensive Lynx Wildcat. And no one said it would be 'free training'… we don't have the capacity to put a couple of dozen crews through a type conversion, the Yanks most certainly do have the system in place to do it for us.
 
#17
lofty_lofty said:
Since rotary wing airlift is clearly an area which needs to be expanded in theatre, should the RAF not be expanding rather than contracting? The MoD and Treasury need to take a long hard look at requirements in theatre, and seriously consider recruiting more crews and procuring more airframes. It's all well and good flooding more troops into theatre, but if you can't safely move them and keep them supplied, then they can't have much impact.

But then again, that would cost money, so it won't happen.

One place we could bring in extra lift, (and we have the aircrews), is by buying the Navy Wokkas to replace their old and bold Sea King Junglies. Navy would be very pleased as they did send some of their guys to learn to fly Wokkas when their was a thought of buying them Wokkas some years ago.
 
#18
Are we getting value for money, our upgrade costs about £11million each but the US Army pay Boeing about £6million for a similar upgrade and theirs include a complete airframe rebuild?

Its also interesting to note that the re-engined Lynx mk9A's are costing us about £6million a pop as well.
 
#20
I imagine this http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...ogistics/ModAnnounces300mToBoostPumaPower.htm is another measure in the "oops sh*t quick throw money at the situation we need more 'elicopters like fricken yesterday" story.

Don't get me wrong, nice to see common sense prevailing, but couldn't they have seen this coming? I assume they decided in all probability Terry would stick to "fighting fair" and getting royally shafted day in day out forever and ever allah akbar amen. So that's okay then.
 

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