Public urged to help locate hidden wartime 'Scallywag' bunkers

Yokel

LE
I wonder sometimes about the moral dimension of resistance. Partisans attack Germans and scoot back to the forest, etc. The Germans execute 20 villagers. The partisans know this will happen. The Germans are morally responsible for the crime, but what about the partisans who carried out the attack that brought retribution on others? I don't know the answer myself. Would i resist if others paid for that with their lives?

I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?
 

TamH70

MIA
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?

If you watched our wartime propaganda films showing off the brave resistance folks across Western Europe, you'd see that there were a lot of times that they showed hostages being thoroughly twatted because of partisan attacks. And I doubt that they made that up entirely out of whole cloth.
 
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?
Not always, but for example Oradour-sur-Glane (France) and Ardeatine Caves Massacre (Italy).
 

Joker62

ADC
Book Reviewer
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?
 
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?
It did happen in the West, though not on the same scale as in the East. In Tulle, France for example. There was at least one incident in Italy where SAS attacked the Germans and, as a result, many men local to the area where the attack took place were killed in reprisal.


 
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I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?
 

PetroHead

Clanker
Bloody hell haven't heard of that place (Towyn) for years, not since I spent a few weeks of 'character building' time there, my first ever log race IIRC. How would MI5 have fitted? I'll bet they wouldn't have had to go for a XC run and sea swim every morning.

JSMTC Leadership Development Course?
I don't think we actually swam in the sea. But we did go for that short run along the road, over the train tracks and then dip our heads under the water every morning.

It was an excellent course. I remember making a raft and paddling across an estuary at night.
Way too dangerous for the regular army!

I was Mallory Troop I think.

When I got back everyone told me the course was called UKLF Leadership.
But I think it was called JSMTC Leadership Development.
 

QRK2

LE
JSMTC Leadership Development Course?
I don't think we actually swam in the sea. But we did go for that short run along the road, over the train tracks and then dip our heads under the water every morning.

It was an excellent course. I remember making a raft and paddling across an estuary at night.
Way too dangerous for the regular army!

I was Mallory Troop I think.

When I got back everyone told me the course was called UKLF Leadership.
But I think it was called JSMTC Leadership Development.

I can't recall the official name, but it was certainly that sort of course and excellent.
 
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc?

Yes, and they didn't need the excuse of "partisans" to start murdering the unarmed. Both the Waffen-SS and Heer were doing it at the very start of the war in 1940 in Belgium and then France (Vinkt, Wormhoudt, Le Paradis, Bois d'Eraine), to the Italian Acqui Division in 1943, within Italy itself (Marzabotto), within Norway (Telavag) - and the SS were certainly doing it after D-Day (e.g. Graignes, Ardenne Abbey, Malmedy, Wereth). There's also the well-known Kommando Befehl - a directive to murder any captured Commandos (remember what happened to the Cockleshell Heroes?). I've mentioned only a few, there were many more. They didn't stop doing it until 1945 and it was obvious that they'd lost, at which point it was "Who, us? Mistreat prisoners? Gosh, we'd never do that, all an exaggeration, the Russians started it, a big boy did it and ran away" (repeated by apologists and fanboys ever since).

It wasn't just "isolated incidents", or "a few bad apples" - it was widespread behaviour, ordered directly by commanders, and carried out with enthusiasm: at Wereth, "The SS men then marched their prisoners to a nearby field, where they were beaten, tortured, and finally shot. The frozen bodies of the victims were discovered six weeks later, when the Allies re-captured the area. The SS troops had battered the black soldiers' faces, broken their legs with rifle butts, cut off some of their fingers, stabbed some with bayonets, and had shot at least one soldier while he was bandaging a comrade's wounds".

Unsurprisingly, once the Canadians discovered the bodies of their soldiers in the grounds of the former 12-SS PzDiv HQ at Ardenne Abbey (shot in the back of the head, or bludgeoned to death) and the news filtered out to the teeth units, they eventually had to be ordered to start taking Waffen-SS prisoners.
 
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I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?

If you take a holiday on the island of Crete, pretty much every village and town will have a memorial to people shot as a reprisal for local resistance.
And it was all carried out by everyday Landser and Fallshirmjeager - not SS.
 
A nice sunny day , so we went and spoke to the ex owner of the property where the Crimond patrol base was suspected to be ,he was able to confirm the previous owner was Alexander Mutch ( patrol sergeant ), he was unaware of exact location of the hide, but upon a bit of prompting regarding woodland he recalled being told by his father ( who purchased the farm of Mutch in 1947) never to go into a part of the woods.
It transpires Sgt Mutch was buried on the farm and his gravestone is in the woods.
This brings me closer than my first thoughts as to the site location, still just off the boundary of our property. At a later time we will no doubt disobey fathers orders and make a search of the woodland.
As to the 2nd location, a store dug into a steep hillside by a stream, We found that location but it has been filled in /collapsed and just a couple of bricks remain in the under growth.
To be continued...
 

Cutaway

LE
Kit Reviewer
... he recalled being told by his father ( who purchased the farm of Mutch in 1947) never to go into a part of the woods.

At a later time we will no doubt disobey fathers orders and make a search of the woodland.
The threat of No 8 switch isn't going to be an issue.
 
I know that the Germans did that in the East, particularly in Russia, but did they do that in the occupied territories in the West - France, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, etc? I thought that there was a racial element to things as the Nazis considered the Slavs as not proper humans?

First two minutes of the best documentary series ever made:

 
JSMTC Leadership Development Course?
I don't think we actually swam in the sea. But we did go for that short run along the road, over the train tracks and then dip our heads under the water every morning.

It was an excellent course. I remember making a raft and paddling across an estuary at night.
Way too dangerous for the regular army!

I was Mallory Troop I think.

When I got back everyone told me the course was called UKLF Leadership.
But I think it was called JSMTC Leadership Development.
Towyn, I was on an Outward Bound Course in '64 had to run to the sea and dip every morning. Led by a mad half Col, if I remember.
 
Of course, were there not some bungling amateurism within the Home Guard, then Dad's Army wouldn't have been popular. One of the aspects of successful comedy is that we can recognise enough of ourselves and real life in it to relate.

I'm frankly bored of the warnings that the BBC seems to need to put on everything. It's in line with the 'only one view is right' thinking it's given to but it closes down history.

Moreover, it doesn't mean that no warning means that we're somehow 'celebrating' our 'savage' colonial past. It just requires an acceptance of the fact that things were different. 'Fuzzy Wuzzies' is correct for the time. The irony being that if many more people were aware of Clive Dunn's politics they'd tie themselves in knots trying to understand how he could commit such a 'sin'.

Dear BBC, it's possible to watch, laugh and not be racist. No, really, it is.

If people want uncomfortable viewing, watch this from about two minutes in. Ouch.
Coincidentally featuring Mrs. Fox from Dad's Army... and possibly one of the writers?
 

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