Public Accounts Committee - MoD Major Projects Report 07-08

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by Invicta, Jul 22, 2008.

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  1. msr

    msr LE

    Why? They'll not be sacked.

  2. New chairs all round and fcuk the wonded and their families - bunch of cnuts!
  3. Nothing new there then. Was in a meeting today, in which two posts that used to be occupied by two D Grade Civil Servants, were 'given up' as a cost saving. In the next sentence approval was given to fill the two posts with contractors costing £400 a day!

    As contractor costs come off a different budget this is considered a 'Saving' on staff costs WTF????????
  4. msr

    msr LE

    No pension, no training, no sick, no leave, no maternity / paternity and v unlikely to go to tribunal.

    And a massive increase in productivity.

    I am sure it is a significant saving.

  5. Even taking all that into account, a D doesn't cost a days pay for a contractor a week!.

    The only bonus is that if we're not happy with a contractor we can just replace him with another one :lol:
  6. Of course, how easily I forget. Its so easy to forget that not a single service person works in procurement, that not a single service person has ever had anything to do with procurement and they never make things go wrong.
    Its so easy to blame the easy targets rather than perhaps looking at your own house and uttering the possibly heretical suggestion that maybe not all the military staff in procurement are up to the job?

  7. Got to admit, spot on. One has to admit there are both types rocking inelegantly on a fulcrum on perfectly balanced incompetence.
  8. Thinking about earlier post I should point out that I'd be the first to blame quite a lot of the CS for some of the cock ups - namely in the desperate drive to promote a multi skilled workforce, we lost the hardcore of procurement experts. I just think we need to balance a natural desire to go postal at the CS with the realisation that they don't work in isolation on this.
  9. Jim, how dare you even consider such libelous tripe! Surely everyone knows that Civil Servants are the root cause of all evil, and that those who dare state otherwise must be an anti-military pinko cnut of the highest order!

    Surely looking at the structure of any DEC or IPT would not show that the majority of decision-makers are actually SO1s and SO2s...?

    Surely the reason a number of servicemen have died patrolling Kandahar Airfield in unprotected B vehicles - years after entry to that country - could not because our own military chain of command underestimated the risks of deploying in the most heavily mined country in the world...?

    Surely the reason why vehicle programmes such as Mastiff were delayed was due to beareaucratic civillians t#ssers, rather than serious opposition at military 2* level because 'protected mobility' did not fit into their doctrinal definitions of capability...?

    No, I'm sure this couldn't be the case, could it? :wink:
  10. Jim30

    And thinking about my previous post, there are those who have worn both hats who, when they became civvies, were the cause of what you mention.

    I remember during my stint in AbbeyWood some of the Chief of Defence Procurement's more ludicrous outpourings. One time he launched into an endorsed requirement, stating that it was wrong, don't pay any attention to it and wouldn't give the project manager resources. Didn't bat an eyelid when it was pointed out that it was his requirement, endorsed when he was serving as DOR(Sea).
  11. My bold.

    I'm sorry but i disagree. I have evidenced (and bought in) several contractors and it is an incorrect assumption that they are the panacea. (Look at some of the high priced consultants that have been bought in to analyse and implement our procurement system (several times).)

    In a project with which i've been involved, we had funding in place to bring in 'resources' but i was barred from recruiting a number of CS (yes there are many that are good) and told it could only be External Assistance (contractors) at, give or take, £600 per day . Result? mush shorter period of assistance because the money ran out and i spent shed loads of time gathering information for them to stick in a report and present back; some were good, others were frankly pish. We're very good at buying them a watch then paying to be told the time.

    With respect to the CS / Mil issue. I'm sad to say that there are some mil within the organisation who see it as a slipper city tour and carved a niche where they live a 9 - 5 existence and don't deploy :( .

    The key failing i believe, is that considerable repsonsibility is placed on people within the org (mil and CS) but are not empowered and thus are faced with many layers of bureaucracy and processes that have become ends in themsleves. Having spent 2 years in the organisation, it's been the least rewarding and most morale sapping tour so far in my career. Back to FLC this summer and back to the main reason i joined the mil.
  12. Christ, are we still harking on about the fcuking chairs? :roll:
  13. ADUX

    Well said. The only thing I'd say is that £600 a day is a bit low. I know one IPT leader (1 Star) who was apoplectic over the same situation you describe, having to fork out nearer £2k a day to an agency for scores of staff where once a handful of CS did the same job. Once they take their cut, I agree the actual consultant probably gets about £600. Thankfully, I'm no longer involved but I understand going direct to the consultant is no longer allowed, or at least made difficult by the bureaucracy you describe.

    I think your last paragraph sums up the feelings of the vast majority. If we're demoralised after a 2 year tour, I shudder to think of the effect it has on the many competent people who have to grind it out for life. I know what's coming, but each of us chooses our own path in life and, like it or not, the 3 Services rely a great deal on these competent CS, who probably detest as much as anyone the increasing numbers who are sod all use.
  14. msr

    msr LE

    And there, laid bare, is the whole problem: there's no-one in charge so no-one has to carry the can.