PTSD is Badly Mishandled

Discussion in 'Charities and Welfare' started by stripeyretired, Mar 13, 2008.

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  1. My son has PTSD diagnosed, and will be called forward to Tyrwhitt House, probably the only place worth going.

    Those of you familiar with the help available, may/will agree that Combat Stress are very well placed to offer treatment.

    However: civvies, civvy treatment and so-called "support services." > No-one out there has a clue and very few care about PTSD, what it is and how it affects people in the armed forces.

    The routine outside is: "can't see, it doesn't exist" the NHS haven't got a handle on it, although they talk big and clever.

    Stay away from social services, support workers and anyone else who doesn't have a clue. My son has gone through too much unwarranted, unnecessary misery, than he needed to. Clumsy, insensitive fools have caused untold damage to my son.

    More damage is something those people DO NOT need. I have personally reported one or two "support workers" to the General Social Care Council (England) as I want their heads on a plate eventually.

    A car crash or even a fire, cannot, ever, compare with battle trauma.

    Thank you.
  2. stripey, I hope your lad gets the treatment he needs and can make some positive steps towards recovery. I agree that Combat Stress do a good job. All the very best.

    TheBigUn :D
  3. I suffered PTSD, when i got told that i might have it i didn't know who to turn to. My boss at the time was a Brigadier and he was a great help through out. He sent me to a doctor that could help me. The whole PTSD thing is a major gray area not alot of people really understand it.
  4. For recent research and information go to: the Environmental Illness Resource site.

    There is recent stuff on this, and on connected Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, look for the item on recent Washington State University research by Martin Pall. This suggests common reactions in the brain from differing causes that have much the same effects.

  5. First of all, accept my apologies for all "clumsy, insensitive fools" that caused additional misery to your son.

    Forgive me for disagreeing with you on this point: "A car crash or even a fire, cannot, ever, compare with battle trauma." A simplistic illustration: you sprained your ankle in a gym; I sprained my ankle stepping out of the bus. The causes of our injuries are different, but the injury is the same, and it hurts the same. Twisted ankle is physical injury, PTSD -- psychological injury. The causes of PTSD can be different, but PTSD would be the same.

    Now, there are two major groups of psychotherapy: talking psychotherapies and meridian-energy therapies (with few therapies in between). The first group originated in the West, is considered conventional, and is accepted by NHS and therefore offered on NHS and by registered charities. Your son, obviously, went for this group. "Talking therapies involve talking and listening. Talking therapies do not offer magic solutions, it can be hard work and progress can be slow or painful." ( And that is why it was so important for your son to talk to someone, who can understand the specifics of battle trauma.

    The second group of therapies continues the traditions of Eastern medicine, primarily, Chinese and Indian. Meridian-energy therapies do not involve talking and relieving traumatic events. They work on rebalancing body's energy system. One of the youngest and most promising therapies is EFT
    This article is from today's paper concerning the use of EFT on PTSD, read it:

    You should also keep it in mind that people respond differently to the same treatment.
    And one more point: before you commit to any treatment, no matter how well established and officially recognised, you MUST do your homework and read as much information on it as you can to help yourself to make an informed choice.

    Good luck to you and your son. PTSD is serious, but it is in no way a death warrant and if you will not give up, I'm confident, you will find a treatment that suits your son.
  6. Domovoy,
    I have no idea if you are medically trained or involved in treatment nor a sufferer but as a diagnosed PTSD sufferer on a war pension your statement "The causes of PTSD can be different, but PTSD would be the same". is about as crass a statement as I have heard, you clearly like to provoke but in this case you are way of track. PTSD is what used to be called shell shock or traumatic war neurosis all other non warlike is defined as Traumatic stress......until such time as you no what you are talking about and have been there I suggest you shut the.....well you know the rest

    stripeyretired, Tyrwhitt House is the dogs, your son will be fine there good luck
  7. I'm trained practising psychotherapist and in the past -- PTSD sufferer. So, I'm afraid, I know what I'm talking about.

    "PTSD can start after any traumatic event. A traumatic event is one where we can see that we are in danger, our life is threatened, or where we see other people dying or being injured. Some typical traumatic events would be:
    -serious road accidents
    -military combat
    -violent personal assault (sexual assault, physical attack, abuse, robbery, mugging)
    -being taken hostage
    -terrorist attack
    -being a prisoner-of-war
    -natural or man-made disasters
    -being diagnosed with a life-threatening illness"
    (The Royal College of Psychiatrists)
  8. Sorry, Domovoy is right, it doesn't matter what caused the PTSD symptomology (by far the most common cause of PTSD is rape or sexual abuse as a child), it's the same illness and the treatments are exactly the same for military caused PTSD and that caused in other scenarios.. And I do know what I'm talking about!

    Just a futher caution about EFT. It looks as though there is going to be a proper clinical trial on this (unlike some of the snake oil treatments we see being touted on ARRSE sometimes), but at the moment there isn't any real research to back the technique up. I hope it does work like it is being described, but just be aware that it won't be widely available yet as the NHS generally can't and won't commission care via therapies with no research backup. I await the study results with interest.
  9. Whether you two feel you "know what you are talking about" and given one of you is a "psychotherapist" you cannot compare what we went through in the military over a continued period of time day in and day out, to one off incidents no mater how traumatic they were, to do so is in my view both condescending and unhelpful, the sad fact is the majority of psychotherapists/councillors (and I trained as one) are well meaning non medically trained amateurs who need to put things in little boxes because of there own life/clinical experiences and conceptual arguments.

    If you continue to believe that you treat military PTSD the same as a car crash you will be doing service personnel a great injustice and this is the very reason why I think you lot are are a bunch of money grabbing, bandwagon jumping, charlatans.....with respect...... this is also why I and others prefer to continue to deal with our demons without your help .
  10. No, Dante, we aren't doing military personnel a misjustice, we are stating the facts. The most common cause of PTSD seen by therapists in the UK is childhood sexual abuse, often over periods a lot longer than those traumatic episeodes suffered by servicemen and women, sometimes up to 10-15 years conitinuous abuse. Military-caused PTSD is not in any way 'special' clinically. It is the same illness with exactly the same symptoms and is treated in the same way.

    I don't believe that you treat PTSD the same way for a car crash and military service, I know you do. Timescales may be different, but not necessarily, but the best practice treatments used are exactly the same.

    I commission care for mental health for a PCT and am absolutely not a money grabbing charlatan. Also, as is well known on here, I have also served operationally recently as a CPN so am fully aware if the problems faced by serving personnel in a war zone.

    Psychological services in general are currently very poorly served by the NHS and it's something that the whole organisation needs to get a grip of. However until mental health is funded properly and without dictact about crisis teams etc coming down from on high, we're going to struggle. It's hard getting therapy for anyone with PTSD, not only servicemen/women or former servicemen/women who make up a very small percentage of the requests that we get. Also worth pointing out that the therapies offered by the military psych teams are at least as good, if not better, than those offered in civilian life, there are some very skilled practitioners.

    Priory currently offer about the best treatment available at the moment and we've commissioned a couple of packages from them over the last few months for ex servicemen.
  11. Sorry if I alluded to you personally being a charlatan I was not and I apologise if it came across if I was. I was talking generally about psychotherapists who in general are albeit well meaning charlatans.
    When you mention the facts these are of course the facts as you see them, this is because most of your customers come from a non military (trauma) back grounds so your work is always going to skewed towards your theory that all trauma is the same so let treat it the same.

    I feel I will have to agree to disagree
  12. Dear Psychobabble I'd like to comment on the treatment I received from my local mental health team-: in a word poor. Wrongly diagnosed, told I was a bad man! (for all the things I'd done) and that i should be locked up because I was a threat to everyone else. What a way to run a service!? When, eventually, after seeing two psychiatrists and attempting suicide twice I self-referred to Combat Stress I was diagnosed with PTSD. The local shrinks do not want to deal with military personnel as they arn't trained to deal with the extreme levels of violence associated with active service life and see us as "Bad Men!" If it wasn't for CS I wouldn't be here today and as for the local mental health team they couldn't give a fcuk about me ! I know I've been there and been told to fcuk off when your raging mad and off your head with grief.
  13. I accept that you think the way you do but I would have to say that the vast majority of MH professionals and the Royal College of Psychiatrists would disagree with you, as Domovoy states above.

    Rowbo, sadly your experience isn't uncommon and it shouldn't be happening. CMHTs often struggle to deal with PTSD, whatever the cause is, again the military aren't a special case in this regard, as psychological services aren't anywhere near sufficient to cope with the demand on them at present.

    If you've been told you're a 'bad man' it could be worth complaining as that's clearly not appropriate language from anyone in MH.

    Mental health teams then end up with people who they aren't able or qualified to treat in any meaningful way, except in crisis situations, (it's not only PTSD patients, Personality Disordered patients also get a raw deal for exactly the same reasons, lack of suitable psycholgical services).

    I'm not at all convinved that NHS services should provide very specialist PTSD treatment in any case. I believe it should be contracted out to the private sector, as I say of all the providers Priory at Ticehurst have about the best results currently, and that this would be funded by the PCT. I have referred people in the past for exactly this reason. The Priory do it better and with a much less medical model approach than the NHS (certainly in my area) can.
  14. Dante, domovoy is entirely right in his analogy

    You can compare and contrast the length, intensity, depth of trigger situations but the end product is the same PTSD

    Civilian practioners of all levels may fail to "Understand/appreciate" the combat experience but this does not alter models of treatment

    The unfortunate fact is the soldier by their nature and training are robust mental individuals with a strong group identity/history and sometimes need to relate to the person they are talking to. Civvy psych's of all flavours and levels can be appear mega wishy washy

    Soldiers are pragmatic types, whats wrong with me, how do I fix it, don't feck around with your psycho babble...............................This sometimes means treatment can break down before its started

    I hope everyone out there fighting this finds the right treatment and a bearable conclusion to their issues

    This is going to put its boots in more and more in GP/MO's inboxes in the future
  15. " A simplistic illustration: you sprained your ankle in a gym; I sprained my ankle stepping out of the bus. The causes of our injuries are different, but the injury is the same, and it hurts the same. Twisted ankle is physical injury, PTSD -- psychological injury. The causes of PTSD can be different, but PTSD would be the same.

    A genuiune question here.... if you 'sprain your ankle' every day for 6 months is the resulting PTSD the same???

    You'd have a really bad ankle after six months, so is there a limit to how much PTSD you can have? Is it a 'you have it' / 'or you don't' scenario or are there levels of PTSD?

    Anybody know?