PSNI cop sues police over IRA uniform!

#1
THIS is taking the p***!!! :evil:

Police farce
Cop's legal bid to have PSNI's 'Sinn Fein/IRA uniform changed

Exclusive by Stephen Breen

11 December 2005
THIS is the Ulster cop who faces a whopping £10,000 legal bill if he loses his case to have police dump their GREEN, WHITE and GOLD uniform!

In an extraordinary hearing before an Industrial Tribunal in Belfast last week, Constable Philip Crawford accused Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde of "political and religious" discrimination over the colour of the police uniform.

Crawford - a cop since 1983 - believes the police-issue green pullover, white shirt and gold badge is representative of "Sinn Fein and the IRA".

But PSNI barrister Neasa Murnaghan told the tribunal that Crawford's case was "patently misconceived".

Crawford - who is representing himself - made his first complaint in April 2002 after the new police uniform was introduced.

The tribunal's ruling is expected early in the New Year. If Crawford loses his case, he has been told by the tribunal's chairman, Duncan Buchanan, that he will have to pay the legal costs.

Although police bosses took a decision to introduce a gold insignia, the colour was changed to silver after the Policing Board introduced the PSNI's new crest.

But Crawford went ahead with his case because a number of the jumpers with the gold insignia were - and remain - in circulation.

The case finally went ahead last week following a number delays.

Crawford told the hearing: "I am of the Protestant faith and from a unionist background, but that does not mean I want a red, white and blue uniform.

"I have carried several murdered colleagues to their graves, watched pictures of the Queen being taken down and the name of the RUC being changed.

"But I was angry and frustrated when I saw this uniform. I think the colour-scheme is representative of Sinn Fein and the IRA and it causes offence and injury to my feelings when I see it being worn.

"The whole force was not surveyed and there was no question on the questionnaires sent out on the new uniforms about the colour combination.

"I think the colours on the uniforms should be amended because they have caused offence to me and others. The Catholic officers have no difficulty complying with the requirement."

But Ms Murnaghan told the tribunal: "The claimant has failed to demonstrate how the colour co-ordination could amount to better treatment for other members of the force.

"The claimant has spectacularly failed to prove that there was some sinister motivation to appease a certain section of the community with the colour combination.

"The colours green, white and gold are also not used on any election literature by Sinn Fein or the Irish government. His claim is fundamentally wrong."

And she added: "The claimant's objection to the colour co-ordination is neither reasonable or justifiable.

"The claim is so patently misconceived that there must be an order of costs made in favour of the respondent (PSNI).

"The manner in which witnesses were also cross-examined on matters which did not assist the tribunal only prolonged it."

The tribunal also heard evidence from Assets Recovery Agency boss Alan McQuillan, who helped oversee the introduction of the new uniform during his time as Assistant Chief Constable.

Mr McQuillan told the tribunal: "A series of police roadshows about the new police uniform were undertaken and there were no objections.

"And of the 3,000 officers who responded to a survey which was sent to 12,000 officers, only 40 officers raised concerns about the uniform.

"The uniform was just an issue of aesthetics and wasn't seen as controversial. The colour scheme had been for use in the RUC for years."

Surely this is a waste of taxpayers time & money.I cincerly hope he loses!!
Spike
 
#3
What planet is that plonker on. Sinn Fein/ IRA will have nothing to do with the PSNI in its present form. Are Gerry and Martin are now fashion designers......think not.
 
#4
Seems this guy may be lacking some of the qualities necessary to be a good copper....
 
#5
a lot of the old ruc sweats resented the name switch to "psni" the wearing of the green, and the irish harp on the cap badge was never a problem in those days so why it is now i dont know,the colour of your jumper should in no way detract you from your duties as a policeman, if thats a worry to him then his judgment to police the province is sorely misplaced i think?
 
#6
Why not put PSNI in Dark Blue Wooly Pullies with peaked caps or ordinary police helmets as part of their normalisation process? Surely this would resolve this guy's issues as well as make the PSNI akin to any other UK constabulary. Alternatively, as well as the green, white and gold on the uniform, they could add an orange sash in the interests of diversity to ensure that 'both sides of the community' feel included. What about Belfast's chinese community? Perhaps PSNI could wear shirts with Chairman Mao collars to accommodate them... Alternatively the gentleman concerned could concede that he has made his point and then crack on (should that be craic) with policing the province in a manner that its citizens deserve.
 
#8
this fella is obviously only taking the piss with an outrageous claim...just like the taigs have been doing for years.

so he is merely playing the system...and unfortunately...might win...as it is 'his' feelings which have been hurt.

the uniform is virtually the same as before, except for a white shirt instead of light green the name and crest, and the stupid police badge on the breast of the woolly jumper.

The baseball caps and white short sleeve shirts in summer look fcuking awful...very amateurish.

and last time i was there, most of the peelers couldnt be bothered to fcucking iron their shirts. CNUTS !

On the other hand, I hope he wins, and forces the government to take BOTH community views into account instead of a oneway bend over and receive a screwing from the Sinners as happening now!
 
#9
How are the views of this man representative Olddear? Granted he may refelect the mindset of a minority, but is it not true that much of the troubles derive from such a narrow minded intolerance? The man should be ashamed to wear the uniform-whether he likes it or not he is there to serve both communities-just like in 69 the army went in to defend the "taigs".
 
#10
captainchaos said:
Why not put PSNI in Dark Blue Wooly Pullies with peaked caps or ordinary police helmets as part of their normalisation process?
That was the old RUC uniform and it was changed after the Scarman tribunal in an attempt to make the force look more Irish. As one of the barristers has already pointed out, the colour scheme (including the green wooly pullies) has been in use since. All Irish regiments in the army have made use of those colours throughout history - without complaint.

This guy sounds ultra right wing to me, as well as being a bit of a nutter. The colours aren't the same as the Irish flag anyway, which is green, white and orange (not gold). The jumpers are a much darker green. The only real issue I can see is that the PSNI (and the RIC and RUC) use the 'Tara' harp instead of the more usual 'Angel' harp. The Tara harp is part of the presidential seal and flag of Ireland whereas I am unaware of the Angel harp figuring anywhere except in the British armed forces.

Its a load of ballix anyway. I hope the twonk loses.
 
#12
Black_Rain said:
British Army have the Royal Co Down harp.
Not all British Army units have, as your own avatar clearly shows. I didn't know it was referred to as the 'Royal County Down' but thanks for the pointer. I'll go off and try and get some more info on its origins.

I've worn four different cap badges with that harp on it and all I ever heard it referred to was the 'Angel Harp'.

Just goes to show eh?
 
#13
GDav said:
captainchaos said:
Why not put PSNI in Dark Blue Wooly Pullies with peaked caps or ordinary police helmets as part of their normalisation process?
That was the old RUC uniform and it was changed after the Scarman tribunal in an attempt to make the force look more Irish. As one of the barristers has already pointed out, the colour scheme (including the green wooly pullies) has been in use since. All Irish regiments in the army have made use of those colours throughout history - without complaint.

This guy sounds ultra right wing to me, as well as being a bit of a nutter. The colours aren't the same as the Irish flag anyway, which is green, white and orange (not gold). The jumpers are a much darker green. The only real issue I can see is that the PSNI (and the RIC and RUC) use the 'Tara' harp instead of the more usual 'Angel' harp. The Tara harp is part of the presidential seal and flag of Ireland whereas I am unaware of the Angel harp figuring anywhere except in the British armed forces.

Its a load of ballix anyway. I hope the twonk loses.
GDav is correct,the RIC (Royal IRISH Const) is the fore runner of the RUC<GC>,Which was sold out years later.Even tho the RUC/PSNI are reffered to as 'Black Bas****s' in reference to the 'B specials'(of which my Uncle Jack was one) the uniform has always been green.
In 1954,the RUC was part otf a review of UK police forces in front of HM The Queen & was noted as being one of the smartest forces in the UK.
Spike
 
#14
Not quite mate - the uniform was dark blue (almost black) prior to the Scarman Tribunal. That included the A, B and C Special uniforms.


The change to bottle green would have been around 1970-72
 
#15
GDav said:
Black_Rain said:
British Army have the Royal Co Down harp.
Not all British Army units have, as your own avatar clearly shows. I didn't know it was referred to as the 'Royal County Down' but thanks for the pointer. I'll go off and try and get some more info on its origins.

I've worn four different cap badges with that harp on it and all I ever heard it referred to was the 'Angel Harp'.

Just goes to show eh?
My avatar is that ofthe Connaught Rangers as you can see its is different class of harp, which is no longer in service. The Royal Irish Rifles- one of the units which made up the Royal Irish Rangers -had the Royal Co Dublin harp because the rifles were formed in Dublin.
 
#16
Black_Rain said:
GDav said:
Black_Rain said:
British Army have the Royal Co Down harp.
Not all British Army units have, as your own avatar clearly shows. I didn't know it was referred to as the 'Royal County Down' but thanks for the pointer. I'll go off and try and get some more info on its origins.

I've worn four different cap badges with that harp on it and all I ever heard it referred to was the 'Angel Harp'.

Just goes to show eh?
My avatar is that ofthe Connaught Rangers as you can see its is different class of harp, which is no longer in service. The Royal Irish Rifles- one of the units which made up the Royal Irish Rangers -had the Royal Co Dublin harp because the rifles were formed in Dublin.
You're going to fall out with me now - I feel it in my water because I've been doing some research on your 'Royal County Down Harp' theory and as far as I can see, unless you can show me otherwise - you're wrong.

The angel harp is the Tara harp but stylised as the 'Maid of Erin'. The name sometimes given to the harp of Brian Boroihme (Brian Boru) which is known these days as the Tara Harp. Its shape and style have simply changed over the years but if you take a look at the older capbadges used by Irish regiments you'll find it is the same harp.

The Royal Irish Rifles did not amalgamate with anyone btw. The regiment ceased to exist (on paper) in 1922 after partition when it was renamed the Royal Ulster Rifles. It was they who amlgamated with the Royal Irish Fusiliers and the Inniskilling Fusiliers in 1968 on the Rock of Gibralter to form the Royal Irish Rangers who themselves were amalgamated a couple of years ago with the Ulster Defence Regiment and are now given the title Royal Irish Regiment, which was ressurected from (but has no connection with) another Irish regiment (18th Foot) which was disbanded in 1922 on partition. Incidentally the capbadge of the 18th Foot was a Tara Harp but as you can see from the photograph at http://www.waterfordcountymuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/50/ it was much narrower than that of the Connaught Rangers cap badge of the same period http://www.waterfordcountymuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/50/2/?lang=en

The Tara harp is still in service and is worn by pipers of some Irish regiments on their caubeens (or was when I was in service).
 
#17
There is no such thing as a 'Royal Co Dublin Harp' either. The symbol of Co Dublin is three turreted castles on a blue background. The harp is a regal symbol and is such is only used to represent kings or queens of Ireland, or as in latter years the President.

The presidential standard http://fotw.vexillum.com/images/i/ie_pres.gif as you will see is a Tara harp on a blue background. Blue being the true royal colour of Ireland.
 
#18
I didnt make my self clear, the Royal Irish Rifles became the Royal Ulster Rifles did merge with Skins and Faugs 1969- you are correct-. Check out the BBC documentry of the Tircentenery of the Royal Irish Rangers. The Dublin and Down harp do exist /have existed.
 
#19
The year the North Irish Brigade amalgamated was 1968 mate. There is no physical evidence anywhere that I can find to substantiate a 'Dublin' or 'Down' harp. All the harps are based on the harp of Brian Boru (the Tara harp) and the angel harp is a stylised 'Maid Of Erin'. That would appear to be it and probably the reason why I have never heard the terminology you have used before.

I should point out that I'm very into Irish (and in particular Irish military) history and I made a helluva good effort last night to try and substantiate what you put forward. If you can give me a hand to prove what you've said I would be delighted.

"When the west awakes, England quakes"
 
#20
Northern Monkey said:
Seems this guy may be lacking some of the qualities necessary to be a good copper....
Or to be more charitable, he is having a bad case of PTSD and it is expressing itself in a typically Ulster-ish fashion?
 

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