Proud Dad / Some advice please?

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Excellent given but have a Funny too. I will be sure to highlight the tongue in cheek bits. I’m assuming she needs to play the gender card as often as possible too and also ensure she times her blob to coincide with dark nights, shitty weather, and crap taskings, wandering about clutching her gut, wincing and saying “tsk, there it goes again”?
We use to refer to CID as “suites”, any time there was a bit of an incident that required cid especially on nights we would always say “form a squad” which was a polite way of saying overtime for cid who liked to “ramp things up”.
 

Arte_et_Marte

ADC
Moderator
Here's a couple more things that I picked up that are not taught.

Walk to a fight and run to a fire. If she is called out to a scrap, even if she blue lighted it, it will be over well before she gets there, she will need her breath for speaking to witnesses and collecting evidence. Running to a fire is obviously a euphanism for something really urgent, Officer in trouble, save life etc.

In the vehicle. "When in town, windows down." You can hear the sounds of the street, people yelling, breaking glass, especially at night.

I had been out of Police College maybe a month and teamed up with my Tutor Constable (as was the thing back then.) We were driving through town and my tutor spins around in a quick 'U' turn and stops a car, they had stolen goods in the boot. I asked him why he had stopped that particular vehicle, the driver was not known to us and he replied. "It was the way he looked at me."

Fair enough thinks I, I'll keep an eye out for that 'look.'

A few nights later he does a similar thing, I saw nothing suspicious about the 'look' and then sure enough the guy was wanted on a warrant. I of course asked my Tutor what made him turn and stop that vehicle, his answer. "It was the way he didn't look at me." It was at this point that I knew I had a long way to go.
 
The Job is very much into 'Mindfulness and Wellbeing' in 2021, not that it makes much difference to the coalface uniform officers with their distant stares and fear of being tannoyed, but at least mental health is being addressed. Get her to read up on it: gym membership, another outside interest that can be taken up at any hour, anything to take her mind off the oppressive workload for an hour or so. Some bits of M&W are OK, such as a defined end-of-work routine.
Also, the ability to make a daily record of an introspective assessment of what she did, no matter how tired she is, and how she could have done it better: the c**t book, full of notes, phone numbers, how-to's, everything her colleagues show her, really. The Job isn't done by rote, it's not process-driven, and she'll be shown different ways of achieving the same effect - steal the best bits. Re-reading it later gets it into back-brain, but she'll be taking so much on board daily that yesterday's will get forgotten otherwise. I guess she'll be digitally-aware, so any pocket device which can read Word docs she has made will do. Until it rains.
Footwear - Dr Martens eight-holes have served generations of uniform Plod, and will continue to do so. They'll take a bit of Kiwi nicely too, and are the standard leaving gift for anybody busted off CID. Danners for street work were more a badge of office for dog handlers and the like. Take care of the uniform, looking smarter than your more learned colleagues will carry you for a little while - this includes ironing your trousers daily, not rolling them up into a locker at the end of shift next to your stinky three-days worn shirt.
Show preparedness for plans to change, by the minute, hour or day, including rest days, sometimes even annual leave. Be fifteen minutes early, for every fixed event, which gives time to put right what you've forgotten. My small daily go-bag briefcase had all my PPE and Job neccessities, along with clean sox/pants/shirt and, in the final ten years, my passport too - ready for anything, which got me noticed and my prep got me first offers on the more interesting stuff, overnighters and abroad.
Finally, if you work for Sainsburys collecting trolleys and your shift finishes at 6pm, you take off your tabard for a long weekend and when you come back someone else has collected all the trolleys while you were off. Nope, for Plod, particularly CID, all that you didn't do while you were off is just waiting for your return, even if you weren't there when it happened. A car park full of trolleys.
Really finally - to echo an above comment, there's uniform officers out there whose human skills are a joy to watch, and when you need help it's like the A-Team have arrived. Never, ever, look down upon them, or you'll be back in their ranks very quickly.
 
Two things.

Enrol into some manner of self defence class; regardless of her future career path, the ability to look after oneself has never been a handicap. In this regard, Krav Maga is rarely found wanting.

Get an interest outside of work. Be that classical guitar, Banksy's finest works, learning Serbo-Croat or piano lessons. Have somewhere you can retreat to when the world of work gets a bit severe.
Yeah, she needs good mates outside of the bubble as well.
 

BaldBaBoon

War Hero
Soak up knowledge from whatever source you can, you dont know when it could become useful......and make a note or make personal contact with officers who are known to be experts or skilled in certain area's.

Policing is such a broad spectrum of knowledge that very,very few people can have a good understanding of it all....and those that do, tend to be missing other more important skills ( social skills namely )

I brought some knowlege to my team from my years as a Royal Engineer, but far more useful was my knowledge that I brought from working in the construction industry and from my lifelong passion with motorcycles.

The team would always give me a call if they needed help locating serial numbers on bikes, datatag advice and smart water. I would often point out really distinctive parts from a stolen or recovered machine that could make it far easier to trace. ....A stolen Yamaha Fazer 900 on the report by a non-biker officer....... but a Fazer 900 in limited edition colours from 2002 with aftermarket control levers and rearsets in polished alloy, Akropovic full titanium system with triangular endcan, and Givi pannier hard frames when the reporting officer was a biker.

I always stopped transits with hi-vis wearing workers outside certain hours, because I was aware ( working in construction myself ) of the hours that builders are allowed to operate on weekends and during the day.....outside these hours, your likely doing something naughty.

Following a Range Rover towing a trailer with a mini- excavator held down with a few straps at 11 at night, methinks fuckwittery is at foot.
 
A few things I’d forgotten on my post this morning.
She needs to be able to take a loss and accept that sadly a majority of the time there will only be so much we can do with a job. You can know with all your heart that Jimmy the Scumbag committed the offence but if there isn’t the evidence the job isn’t going anywhere. People will retract witness and victim statements at the last minute or simply refuse to cooperate with you at all, venue owners will lie about their CCTV not working and colleagues will do crap statements or not do decent interviews. It can be galling and frankly enraging if you’ve put time and effort into building a decent casefile but she’ll need to learn to accept it otherwise she’ll end up even more bitter and jaded than most coppers already are.
On a similar theme don’t got making daft unrealistic promises to victims. Even though officers are taught to manage expectations, far too many still make silly promises to avoid having to give bad news face to face or because they’re worried about upsetting them. Unfortunately due to things like CSI and other silly bollocks cop programmes the public at large think we can solve every crime it’s just a case of us not being arsed, racist, corrupt etc. Whereas in reality we’ve finite numbers and money meaning there’s only ever so much we can do.
The CPS are overworked and understaffed so again she’ll need to be prepared for good jobs to go sideways at court. The judiciary give out joke sentences so often you’re actually pleasantly surprised when one of your suspects gets a decent period inside.
Also she needs to get the maxim ‘if it isn’t written down it didn’t happen’ into her head as soon as. This sounds like common sense but as she’ll learn common sense isn’t all that common. I’m routinely have to pull up people with much more service than me for missing vital bits in their statements and it gets far too many people into trouble especially in relation to use of force.
As others have mentioned mental health is one of the biggest challenges of the job and if she ever feels that she’s struggling ask for help. I dealt with a very unpleasant infant sudden death and got the square route of sod all assistance at work. I had to seek out help via the NHS. Things are getting better for this in the job but she will still need to look after herself. Remember that your well-being should always come first, you don’t get medals or promoted for toughing it out.
Again as others have said get hobbies to help decompress. I got back into Warhammer after years as sitting quietly painting models does wonders for helping me to calm down after stressful days as gimpy as it is.
Finally be prepared for abuse. I’ve said that part of the assessment should involve potential recruits sitting in a chair and having two angry old sweats scream abuse into each ear for two minutes as it’d be a far more realistic and better test of character than half of the nonsense role plays they have you do. Sadly being in the police in 2021 she will receive lots of verbal abuse it’s effectively part of the job. How she reacts to it will be up to her. Personally if circumstances allow, I nick them for s.4a POA as I’m an OT bandit and if you’re the victim you’re not expected to do the crime report or deal with the prisoner. Though as a skipper that’s not really an issue for me! However I know plenty of others who will just let it wash over them as they can’t be arsed with the extra work. It’s a personal choice she’ll have to make.
 

BaldBaBoon

War Hero
Report writing.

There is a min standard required for reports and you will not get bollocked for being just above this, especially considering the amount of reports you are likely going to have at one time. There does not appear to be a great amount of light shone on doing a good report and the benefits it can bring.....mostly because you tend to get bugger all feedback for doing a cracking, well researched report compared to just a min standard report. Depends on management I would imagine.

But, you do hand over reports to other officers, other departments and other forces or services and a good report to my mind shows how good an officer you are.

.......................................

Job Handed to me, descriptive first paragraph........

The venue is no.46 Wool Road, Barnes. The property is owned by the VIW1 ( victim ) Mr Parish. Who returned from work at approx 2100 hrs to find his house had been broken into and items taken.No suspects seen,No cctv,no witnesses. No forensics.

Same job when I handed to another officer after some research.

Venue

The venue is No.46 Wool Road. Wool Road runs North to South between Gate Road and Pond Road in Barnes.
The location is a 2 storey privately owned semii-detached house that is set back from Wool road ( West of Road ) and the accompanying public path approx 20 foot with the venue accessed through an unlocked wooden gate. There is a substantial hedge ( 7ft ) between the house and the public path/road on Wool Road that obscures any line of sight to the front of the house and the front door from public areas and any neighbouring abodes.
Wool Road allows residential parking with a permit on both sides of the road and has a substantial amount of parked vehicles at all times, the Street lighting is of poor quality and widely spaced and leaves substantial areas of poor lighting, one of which is directly outside no. 46.
The venue has a public alleyway running along its south border with a 8 ft wooden fence providing a seperation between the property and the alleyway, the access route leads from Wool Road to Danger Road to the West and is unlit.
The rear of the venue backs onto the gardens of the houses from Danger Road with another small unlit alleyway providing access to the venues garden by a secured wooden gate.

Method of Entry

Suspects entered the property by means of the front door. This door is a substantial heavy wooden construction with 2 locks, one at chest height and one at head height ( only chest height locked ) with a 2ft by 2ft glass panel mounted in the top third of the door. The glass panel is of a multipane, stained glass construction without reinforcement and entry was by a single small pane 5" by 5" being forced through from outside with shattered glass being spread approx 10 feet across the floor of the reception area. This allowed access to the door handle to open the door from inside.

It would appear that the suspects left the location from the front door again, a search of the premesis showed all windows and other doors undisturbed and locked.


Et etc.......
 
Danners for street work were more a badge of office for dog handlers and the like.
In the Met, most dog handlers always looked like they had slept with their dog as their uniform was always covered in dog hair. Always covered in mud with bits of twigs sticking out of their hair from chasing suspects with Rin Tin Tin over fields, hedges and gardens.
 
In the Met, most dog handlers always looked like they had slept with their dog as their uniform was always covered in dog hair. Always covered in mud with bits of twigs sticking out of their hair from chasing suspects with Rin Tin Tin over fields, hedges and gardens.
A fine body of men and wimmin. I refer You to Stumpy and the auld sapper.... ;)
 
Report writing.

There is a min standard required for reports and you will not get bollocked for being just above this, especially considering the amount of reports you are likely going to have at one time. There does not appear to be a great amount of light shone on doing a good report and the benefits it can bring.....mostly because you tend to get bugger all feedback for doing a cracking, well researched report compared to just a min standard report. Depends on management I would imagine.

But, you do hand over reports to other officers, other departments and other forces or services and a good report to my mind shows how good an officer you are.

.......................................

Job Handed to me, descriptive first paragraph........

The venue is no.46 Wool Road, Barnes. The property is owned by the VIW1 ( victim ) Mr Parish. Who returned from work at approx 2100 hrs to find his house had been broken into and items taken.No suspects seen,No cctv,no witnesses. No forensics.

Same job when I handed to another officer after some research.

Venue

The venue is No.46 Wool Road. Wool Road runs North to South between Gate Road and Pond Road in Barnes.
The location is a 2 storey privately owned semii-detached house that is set back from Wool road ( West of Road ) and the accompanying public path approx 20 foot with the venue accessed through an unlocked wooden gate. There is a substantial hedge ( 7ft ) between the house and the public path/road on Wool Road that obscures any line of sight to the front of the house and the front door from public areas and any neighbouring abodes.
Wool Road allows residential parking with a permit on both sides of the road and has a substantial amount of parked vehicles at all times, the Street lighting is of poor quality and widely spaced and leaves substantial areas of poor lighting, one of which is directly outside no. 46.
The venue has a public alleyway running along its south border with a 8 ft wooden fence providing a seperation between the property and the alleyway, the access route leads from Wool Road to Danger Road to the West and is unlit.
The rear of the venue backs onto the gardens of the houses from Danger Road with another small unlit alleyway providing access to the venues garden by a secured wooden gate.

Method of Entry

Suspects entered the property by means of the front door. This door is a substantial heavy wooden construction with 2 locks, one at chest height and one at head height ( only chest height locked ) with a 2ft by 2ft glass panel mounted in the top third of the door. The glass panel is of a multipane, stained glass construction without reinforcement and entry was by a single small pane 5" by 5" being forced through from outside with shattered glass being spread approx 10 feet across the floor of the reception area. This allowed access to the door handle to open the door from inside.

It would appear that the suspects left the location from the front door again, a search of the premesis showed all windows and other doors undisturbed and locked.


Et etc.......
In the Met, even from the late eighties when I joined, the first paragraph might have been acceptable for a theft from motor vehicle but the second format was always the standard for a burglary investigation and had you produced the first one you would be pulled up pretty sharpish and told to do it properly.

The trouble was though, the management in CID started producing cut and paste docs with officers filling them in which amounted to 8 pages together with a 4 page risk assesment, whereas before you would have 2 to 4 pages of a clear, accurate, and consise written investigation. Even a simple theft from M/V could amount from 4 to 8 pages, with only a couple of paragraphs being relevant.

However reading them while working in a central crime screening unit it was hard to find out what had exactly happened as there were so many pages of irelevant crap on the crime reports. In trying to sort out the wheat from chaff you were in danger of missing important information in the report, especially as you had another 100 crime reports to screen in an 8 hour shift.
 

Wee Hawken

Old-Salt
Not in a position to provide any relevant advice but very best of luck Ito your daughter. She has chosen a path that will not be easy but I can't think of a better thing for a positive-minded young man or woman to do with their life. Hope it goes really well for her.
 
I've blatantly pinched this from @supermatelot on another thread but no truer words spoken.....
'Jeremy Kyle show is not actors. People are actually like that and... there are a lot of them.'

Its a long time since I was on response but I echo everything that has been said so far.
Regarding 'When in town windows down', never tolerate people gobbing off at the Police car. Pet hate of mine. Stop and interact. Knocks the wind right out of their sails. Particularly if its a gang of teenagers and you've pinged the gobby one.
 

Teeblerone

War Hero
Can't add much - except congratulations & best of luck!
Magnum boots - not always great in smaller sizes and especially so for ones with toecaps (no reason to get toecaps for police work, tbh);
Extended handcuff key costs a couple of quid, well worth it. And keep a standard key somewhere as well!;
Small pelican light or similar, slips onto a loop/seam, easier than a handheld torch for writing notes (more traffic than beat maybe);

Stuff i was told that helped:
Wise words in abundance above, especially the one that sounded wrong, but is right ' Run to a fire, not a fight'.; like surf rescue, you have to arrive 'at the scene' able to observe, talk, assess and act, not swinging & puffing.
Get used to/recognise the effects of adrenaline, heat exhaustion, hunger. pretty much nausea for all 3, but....bit of salt, sugar, protein at the right time, a cold can of coke in the armpit/side of neck can help.

You are 'a line', but not the only one. Some people get away, you can only do what you can do. Eat, drink, pee regularly.
Deffo on the cntbook! you can have redacted recce's, statements etc as examples, but the best comes from your own words.
 

Teeblerone

War Hero
Can't add much - except congratulations & best of luck!
Magnum boots - not always great in smaller sizes and especially so for ones with toecaps (no reason to get toecaps for police work, tbh);
Extended handcuff key costs a couple of quid, well worth it. And keep a standard key somewhere as well!;
Small pelican light or similar, slips onto a loop/seam, easier than a handheld torch for writing notes (more traffic than beat maybe);

Stuff i was told that helped:
Wise words in abundance above, especially the one that sounded wrong, but is right ' Run to a fire, not a fight'.; like surf rescue, you have to arrive 'at the scene' able to observe, talk, assess and act, not swinging & puffing.
Get used to/recognise the effects of adrenaline, heat exhaustion, hunger. pretty much nausea for all 3, but....bit of salt, sugar, protein at the right time, a cold can of coke in the armpit/side of neck can help.

You are 'a line', but not the only one. Some people get away, you can only do what you can do. Eat, drink, pee regularly.
Deffo on the cntbook! you can have redacted recce's, statements etc as examples, but the best comes from your own words.
I don't remember the buggers costing £20!
 
, pee regularly.
100 percent agree with this one. Cops drink huge amounts of tea and their is nothing worse than being suddenly stuck on a crime scene at 00 dark thirty on a freezing cold winters night with a full bladder which urgently needs emptying, and Mrs Jones hydrangea's at 21 Acacia Avenue get a sudden unexpected watering.

One of your most important jobs as a probationer is making the tea for the relief/team (what ever you call it these days). This is a most important job which success will be judged on. You have to get it right, knowing that Constable Savage likes his strong with no sugar and Sergeant George Dixon likes his Nato standard, milk with two sugars.

Policemen need a cup of tea every two hours at least or else they get caffeine withdrawel symptons. I found this out early in my service about 1990 during the first day of the Notting Hill Carnival. This usually meant standing manning metal barriers blocking roads off for two hour stretches until relieved for a cup of tea. This one time the serial from my relief were manning this barrier when the Inspector in charge - 'Silver' didn't relieve us for over four hours for whatever reason despite being told we were overdue. The blokes were chuntering like f*ck and were on the point of mutiny and lynching the Inspector. They only calmed down once they had downed a few glugs of tea.

The Met has a tea van with the call sign 'Teapot One' which attends any event which lasts over a certain time. It goes back to an event in 1983 when the crew of a TSG van kicked shit out of a couple of youths in Hollaway for no apparent reason. It was all covered up until a few years later one of the TSG crew became a born again christain and spilled the beans with the rest of the occupants going inside for a few years.

There was an enquiry and it turned out the crew had been on standby for some event and hadn't had a break for a consderable amount of time and the crew were wound up being stuck inside a van for so long anticipating trouble to the point that the two innocent young lads had born the brunt of their frustration. The Met got some critism for this and after this ensured that officers were relieved regulary for breaks and tea pot one came into being.
 
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A few things I’d forgotten on my post this morning.
She needs to be able to take a loss and accept that sadly a majority of the time there will only be so much we can do with a job. You can know with all your heart that Jimmy the Scumbag committed the offence but if there isn’t the evidence the job isn’t going anywhere. People will retract witness and victim statements at the last minute or simply refuse to cooperate with you at all, venue owners will lie about their CCTV not working and colleagues will do crap statements or not do decent interviews. It can be galling and frankly enraging if you’ve put time and effort into building a decent casefile but she’ll need to learn to accept it otherwise she’ll end up even more bitter and jaded than most coppers already are.
On a similar theme don’t got making daft unrealistic promises to victims. Even though officers are taught to manage expectations, far too many still make silly promises to avoid having to give bad news face to face or because they’re worried about upsetting them. Unfortunately due to things like CSI and other silly bollocks cop programmes the public at large think we can solve every crime it’s just a case of us not being arsed, racist, corrupt etc. Whereas in reality we’ve finite numbers and money meaning there’s only ever so much we can do.
The CPS are overworked and understaffed so again she’ll need to be prepared for good jobs to go sideways at court. The judiciary give out joke sentences so often you’re actually pleasantly surprised when one of your suspects gets a decent period inside.
Also she needs to get the maxim ‘if it isn’t written down it didn’t happen’ into her head as soon as. This sounds like common sense but as she’ll learn common sense isn’t all that common. I’m routinely have to pull up people with much more service than me for missing vital bits in their statements and it gets far too many people into trouble especially in relation to use of force.
As others have mentioned mental health is one of the biggest challenges of the job and if she ever feels that she’s struggling ask for help. I dealt with a very unpleasant infant sudden death and got the square route of sod all assistance at work. I had to seek out help via the NHS. Things are getting better for this in the job but she will still need to look after herself. Remember that your well-being should always come first, you don’t get medals or promoted for toughing it out.
Again as others have said get hobbies to help decompress. I got back into Warhammer after years as sitting quietly painting models does wonders for helping me to calm down after stressful days as gimpy as it is.
Finally be prepared for abuse. I’ve said that part of the assessment should involve potential recruits sitting in a chair and having two angry old sweats scream abuse into each ear for two minutes as it’d be a far more realistic and better test of character than half of the nonsense role plays they have you do. Sadly being in the police in 2021 she will receive lots of verbal abuse it’s effectively part of the job. How she reacts to it will be up to her. Personally if circumstances allow, I nick them for s.4a POA as I’m an OT bandit and if you’re the victim you’re not expected to do the crime report or deal with the prisoner. Though as a skipper that’s not really an issue for me! However I know plenty of others who will just let it wash over them as they can’t be arsed with the extra work. It’s a personal choice she’ll have to make.
On that side @Toastie - buy herself a copy of The Secret Barrister as well - it's informing and depressing in equal measure. As @DrunkenIrish said, the CPS are understaffed, as are the Crown and County Court staff, the infra isn't up to the new digital framework in many places.
 
My continued thanks.

Add to list:

Write everything down either as evidence or as learning. Pick a role model(s) and strive to learn what makes “good” good. Ask for help. Be prepared. Be early. Be realistic in what is achievable and don’t run to something that running to isn’t going to affect the outcome.

Re picking the gobby one in a gang, I use a similar technique on an aircraft when the lads are behaving in a way as a group that they’d never behave like as individuals, so called “Risky Shift”. I tell them to pack it in then tell the Bobby one of them that I’m holding him, or amazingly increasingly often her, responsible for the behaviour of the rest.

One question please, @DrunkenIrish referred to OT and POA? Translation please anyone?

Thanks again, the more the merrier.
 
Oh, and she’s screwed. She’s into fancy coffee. She can at least make a decent brew with ASDA’s finest cheapo T bags because her old man insisted she learnt. I got to drink some heaving tea during the process.
 
Oh, and she’s screwed. She’s into fancy coffee. She can at least make a decent brew with ASDA’s finest cheapo T bags because her old man insisted she learnt. I got to drink some heaving tea during the process.
Places I worked or visited in respect of work all had decent coffee and...it's London, there's a Nero, Starbucks, Costa or somewhere with the male staff not wearing socks doing cold drip coffee just round the corner.
 
OT.......Overtime......becoming a rare thing where I am.

POA.......Public Order Act.....standard go to legislation on a weekend night.
 
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